Croc hunt will endanger humans - Bob Irwin

Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum

Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Just a quiet suggestion on the hunting method used

Permit the hunter to pay $20,000 prior to the hunt
Take him to a place you know big crocs are
Hand him a spear gun flippers and face mask and toss him over the side

Get rid of a few yanks and germans and maybe even a croc or two
 
It's important to note that just because something is common and abundant today, doesn't mean it will be that way in the future (especially with ongoing increased downwards pressure on the population size). If 50 a year is a drop in the ocean today, in 20, 30 and 50 years time, it may be a lot more significant.

You say population assessments are "regularly" carried out in NT? How often exactly? and in the top end in general?

Do you know how many croc eggs are harvested each year in NT? It leaves the 50 crocs for dead. Why would 50 be any more significant in 50 years? Still the same drop in the ocean provided no other pressures are applied. Read some of Webb & Manolis papers, it's all there.
 
Do you know how many croc eggs are harvested each year in NT?
No, do you?
It leaves the 50 crocs for dead. Why would 50 be any more significant in 50 years? Still the same drop in the ocean provided no other pressures are applied. Read some of Webb & Manolis papers, it's all there.
Yes of course if no other pressures are applied it will be the same. But honestly, what are the chances of no other pressures being applied? In 50 years time when the human population in NT increases, suitable habitat for the crocs will decrease to name one inevitable pressure. This will have a feedback effect as there will be more "incidences" between crocs and humans and we all know gets booted out of whos backyard if this happens.
 
Read some of Webb & Manolis papers, it's all there.
If people where to do some research like you said and read some of the paper on crocs by Webb & Manolis, they would have a better understanding of the facts before making a decision. I think most would see the situation differently afterwards.
 
Wait, so the eggs are destined for crocodile farms? So the croc farms don't even breed their own crocodiles? They just take wild eggs, hatch them, fatten them up in overcrowded spaces and then kill them for their skins to sell. That's worse than I thought...
 
Wait, so the eggs are destined for crocodile farms? So the croc farms don't even breed their own crocodiles? They just take wild eggs, hatch them, fatten them up in overcrowded spaces and then kill them for their skins to sell. That's worse than I thought...

and yet it hasnt even made a dent in the population
 
Crocodiles are still not even close to recorded population sizes before hunting nearly wiped them out so i would have to say i am against trophy hunting until we see an increase in population size, they are still no where near as numerous as they should be.
 
Crocodiles are still not even close to recorded population sizes before hunting nearly wiped them out so i would have to say i am against trophy hunting until we see an increase in population size, they are still no where near as numerous as they should be.


Proof?
 
Why does everything need to be measured in conservation value to determine its value. There is also an ethical question about whether its right to kill native wildlife for fun. If its not imperative for maintaining ecosystems, then why allow slaughter of native wildlife? Seems absurd the government would allow this. Its amazing how loud hunting lobby groups can be.
 
Why does everything need to be measured in conservation value to determine its value. There is also an ethical question about whether its right to kill native wildlife for fun. If its not imperative for maintaining ecosystems, then why allow slaughter of native wildlife? Seems absurd the government would allow this. Its amazing how loud hunting lobby groups can be.

there are already culls which in most cases is the government paying other people to shoot them. there is no real reason not to allow the hunting (please use appropriate terms, slaughter implies something that hunting is not) of native wildlife. Lets also keep in mind that a real hunter is ethical! it seems absurd the government hasn't allowed this earlier with all the revenue it could raise for them, the owners of the land and without even impacting on the population. Hunting lobby's are not nearly as loud as greenies!!

i apologise if i sound rude, i dont mean to there is just a few misconceptions.
 
I am not a hunter, I don't like hunting however these animals are already being culled every year. There is something like 500 crocs killed every year, the trophy hunting would only be removing 50 of the 500. The main reason I support it is that it can/will create an income for traditional owners. Coupled with that is once the croc has a monetary value, communities will be less likely to kill crocs on their land without good reason. Why destroy something if it takes money out of your pocket. This means in the long term there is the potential for the croc numbers to increase, even with the culling.

This then means the crocodiles have a use. A quote from Grahame Webb on the topic of conserving Australia's crocodiles through commercial incentives "Without a use, any item, wildlife included, runs the risk of being seen as useless".
 
Last edited:
LOL, gotta love the term 'hunting'. They pay a guide to take them to the animal and shoot them with a high powered rifle from a safe distance. Ooohh, so tough! I personally hate hunting and have serious concerns about people who enjoy it. The idea of someone taking the life of a beautiful animal so they can blow their load is unintelligible to me. But hey, money talks.

And..... go
 
Please follow Waterrats’ advice and express facts rather than opinions as if they were facts. Crocodiles have been intensively studied since the early 1970's when Sydney University set up a research station at Maningrida. Dr. Graeme Webb was one of the early scientists to get involved, along with his then Ph.D. research student, now Dr. Charlie Manolis. Both individuals ended up forgoing the academic life of teaching to devote themselves exclusively to research in studying this animal full time over many years. There have been plenty of other researchers involved over time, not the least of which is (now retired) Professor Gordon Grigg, who expressed sentiments similar to those of Graeme Webb, as quoted by Abnormal in post No.32. Having spent a fair bit of time with Gordon, many years ago, I know just how passionate he is about all aspects of wildlife, not the least of which is conservation. He would not make that statement unless he believed it was ultimately in the best interests of the animal concerned.

Historically, it is interesting to note that original funding for the research was drummed up by Prof. Harry Messel, Head of Physical Sciences at the Uni. He was a American who came to visit and stayed and had a knack for funding research projects. He convinced the government of the day that crocs were in imminent danger of extinction and they had to do something and he knew what. As time went by and the research data clearly showed that crocs were far from on the brink of extinction, Messel maintained his initial line to continue the funding. That caused a bit of in-fighting and some good measure of public confusion about what was really the case at the time… but the money kept flowing.

If you want a good read as well as the facts, try Graeme Webb’s “Crocodiles of Australia” by Webb and Manolis. Reed 1989. Getting a little dated but the history and facts contained therein have not changed. There is also a great foreward by Hal Cogger.

Blue
 
Crocodile conservation in Australia is an outstanding success and it clearly illustrates that government's protection of species can only be successful if the wider community and business gets involved. Such was and still is the case of crocodile populations recovery. Crocodile farmer's contribution and people's understanding of crocodiles played a major part in crocodiles going from CITES Appendix I (near extinction) to having healthy populations across northern Australia as we see it today. Along the recovery success, we have a thriving crocodile industry that supplies the world with best quality skins and meat, indigenous people can practice traditional hunting (with modern weapons :?) and tourism is benefiting big way.
Why did all this happen? Because along with the great research done by the gentlemen mentioned above, crocodile farmers established a monetary value on crocodile's head. Like with everything else, worthless things are not worth taking care of and all the greenies and governments in the country couldn't achieve this level of conservation without the industry.

Times are changing; I was involved in removal of "nuisance" salties in NQ in the eighties, we took them out of the Daintree River, Cooper Creek and other waterways where crocs are well established today and tourists are paying money to see them. As BigWillieStyles said, it's now more of an ethical question whether they should be hunted for trophies rather than economical. If the 50 shot crocs is going to bring $500,000 per year, it's nice but both the crocs and the people can live without that money. Estuarine crocodiles don't need any other, higher level of protection that they are having today. Do the property owners, indigenous communities and the administrators need the money? I can't answer the question but I tend to lean towards "no".

M
 
Last edited:
You have got to love crocs, marinated in coconut milk & spices cooked on the BBQ.LOL.
 
If you want a good read as well as the facts, try Graeme Webb’s “Crocodiles of Australia” by Webb and Manolis. Reed 1989. Getting a little dated but the history and facts contained therein have not changed. There is also a great foreward by Hal Cogger.
This book is a good beginners book if people want to get an understanding on Australian Crocodiles. It can be bought from Andrew Isles bookshop for $35 or so.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top