Metabolic Bone Disease in my 6 month old beardie - Am I taking the right steps?

[juezz]

Hello, I am sure my beardie has MBD due to sudden loss of appetite, lethargy, 1 overly curled toe, dragging of the back legs (only sometimes, can use them if he has to), and I can feel boney bumps on his belly when i hold him. He is 6 months old.

My basking temp is at ~35-40 degrees Celsius.

10.0 Reptiglo UVB.

As it is winter i am running my ceramic heat lamp at night as well.

I have, as of yesterday, started giving him Jump Start (calcium, d3 + others).

He WILL NOT eat anything apart from the gel which I have to force feed him. He has not eaten anything for 4 days.

If he does not eat in the next 2 days I plan on taking him to the vet.


I just want to know if I am taking the correct steps to stop the disease and get him eating again, and at which point is a VET needed?


Thankyou!

 

[Grogshla]

bump up his temps to 45 degrees mate.
Also give him a warm bath in shoulder deep water (keep your eyes on him at all times) keep him in there for 15-20 mins.
Also be sure that he can get within 15-20cm of the uvb light and that the light is direct as uvb rays can't get through glass.
Also what are you offering him for food? I would suggest medium size crickets. Dust them with calcium powder at least 5 feeds a week and dust 1-2 times a week with vitamin powder
Hope all goes well mate.

 

[Defective]

^^ +1

 

[juezz]

Thanks for the replies. I will give him a bath now

And I am offering him medium crickets and some carrot to see if he would take any veg but he is not interested at all... i wouldve thought he would be starving at day 4

 

[Grogshla]

try giving him chopped up green beans, grated squash and a bit of grated pumpkin.
He might just prefer a different kind of vegie.

 

[Telise93]

this happened to mine around the same time too,
what Grogshla said above is basically everything you should be doing right now.

but I suggest going to the vet as well, mine gave me some extra Calcium/Vitamin drops to give once a day
(not the exo-terra or other aquarium sold kind)

Just while he is sick, maybe try the natural natural baby food or mashing veggies up yourself.
My boy was much better & started eating normally after 3 days or so

 

[juezz]

this happened to mine around the same time too,
what Grogshla said above is basically everything you should be doing right now.

but I suggest going to the vet as well, mine gave me some extra Calcium/Vitamin drops to give once a day
(not the exo-terra or other aquarium sold kind)

Just while he is sick, maybe try the natural natural baby food or mashing veggies up yourself.
My boy was much better & started eating normally after 3 days or so

Alright, ill see how he goes and maybe hit up a vet. Ill have to try mashing the veggies up! Thanks for the reply

 

[Chris1]

the symptoms you describe could also indicate impaction, (aside from the overly curled toe which could be unrelated)
has he been pooing?

 

[jordo]

My basking temp is at ~35-40 degrees Celsius.

That isn't an accurate measurement for the basking temp by anyones standard. Go buy yourself a thermometer, it could be a major part of your problem.

 

[reptalica]

+1 to my fellow posters. In giving him a warm bath just remember reptiles i.e. beardie in this situation prefer it what's called tepid. Luke warm to us is warmer to a dragon/snake. So don't make it too warm.

Good idea to mix the vegies up and give him variety......endive, bok choy, even some apple sauce, grated carrot, sprouts - have a long stem with a green leaf at the end-most green grocers have these.

 

[juezz]

Thanks for all the help. Peg is now eating again. For other inexperienced reptile owners reading this with the same problem, just go to a vet and get a calcium shot and give the lizard a long soak. This is what I did and after a week of stress he is now better.

 

[Bluetongue1]

There has to be a reason it got sick in the first place and that should be addressed so it does not happen again. There are two possibilities – (1) lack of calcium in the diet; (2) insufficient or ineffective UVB exposure. The first is fairly simple to address. Calcium supplementation a couple of time a week, but no more, will ensure an adequate intake.

Reptiles can photosynthesise the inactive form of vitamin D (pre-vitamin) in their skin under the influence of UVB. However, for this reaction to take place effectively, the reptile needs to be at its preferred body temperature and the strength of the UVB light has to be adequate. So the first thing to ensure is that the UVB light shines on the basking spot. There are different strength fluorescent UVB lights available and Beardeds do best with the strongest output of UVB10. The distance from the UVB light to the lizard should be between 10 cm and 30 cm. The intensity of the UV light drops off very rapidly with distance from the bulb.

One last thing to consider is the age of the bulb. All UV producing lights degrade with use. This is unavoidable and has to do with the way they produce the UV light. The strength of the visible light from a UV bulb does not change. So it gives you no indication of when the UV production is below par. There are two things you can do. Buy yourself a decent UVB meter and measure the output from the globe. Or replace the globe according to the manufacturer’s recommendations - usually somewhere between 6 and 12 months. A few hours of natural sunlight throughout the week is also sufficient to keep your lizard healthy.


Preferred body temperature of Bearded Dragons is 35[SUP]o[/SUP]C so that should be the temperature of the bath. Human body temperature is 37[SUP]o[/SUP]C, so a 35[SUP]o[/SUP]C bath is not going to feel warm. It will be as stated – tepid.

Blue

 

[juezz]

There has to be a reason it got sick in the first place and that should be addressed so it does not happen again. There are two possibilities – (1) lack of calcium in the diet; (2) insufficient or ineffective UVB exposure. The first is fairly simple to address. Calcium supplementation a couple of time a week, but no more, will ensure an adequate intake.

Reptiles can photosynthesise the inactive form of vitamin D (pre-vitamin) in their skin under the influence of UVB. However, for this reaction to take place effectively, the reptile needs to be at its preferred body temperature and the strength of the UVB light has to be adequate. So the first thing to ensure is that the UVB light shines on the basking spot. There are different strength fluorescent UVB lights available and Beardeds do best with the strongest output of UVB10. The distance from the UVB light to the lizard should be between 10 cm and 30 cm. The intensity of the UV light drops off very rapidly with distance from the bulb.

One last thing to consider is the age of the bulb. All UV producing lights degrade with use. This is unavoidable and has to do with the way they produce the UV light. The strength of the visible light from a UV bulb does not change. So it gives you no indication of when the UV production is below par. There are two things you can do. Buy yourself a decent UVB meter and measure the output from the globe. Or replace the globe according to the manufacturer’s recommendations - usually somewhere between 6 and 12 months. A few hours of natural sunlight throughout the week is also sufficient to keep your lizard healthy.


Preferred body temperature of Bearded Dragons is 35[SUP]o[/SUP]C so that should be the temperature of the bath. Human body temperature is 37[SUP]o[/SUP]C, so a 35[SUP]o[/SUP]C bath is not going to feel warm. It will be as stated – tepid.

Blue

Thanks for this great information. I was (after inappropriate recommendation from a pet store) using a 5.0 UVB which i was told is plenty for them. Since my beardie got sick I have addressed this. The temperatures and distances are pretty spot on from what I have read so I see no problem there. I had only been supplementing calcium once every couple of weeks, so i see an issue there which i can now resolve (I will now dust crickets in calcium supp twice a week, and dust them with multi vitamin once every weekend).

Interesting that some have suggested impaction... because over the 5 days in which he would not eat a thing he did not poo (he pood the day before he stopped eating). I thought this was normal because he wasnt eating anything, but after his 1 hour soak, the next morning I woke to find he had pood and would eat the crickets I offered him. So it is hard to tell whether the calcium shot given the day before, or the bath and resulting poo, is what caused him to take food again :/

It should be noted that a week before he got sick, I had changed the substrate from artificial grass to the red sand they have at the pet shop. I have read that it can be dangerous (ive also read that it isnt dangerous..) but I had figured my dragon was big enough to deal with any sand he may injest. It should also be noted that I did see him at first eat some sand, but i figured this was just him doing what lizards do, and licking his new environment to suss it out.

SORRY FOR THE ESSAY! But I would, as you rightly said, like to address any issues to avoid a repeat of this. Thanks guys!

That isn't an accurate measurement for the basking temp by anyones standard. Go buy yourself a thermometer, it could be a major part of your problem.

Also, that temperature was measured with a thermometer... I offered a range because the temp can obviously fluctuate due to the many surrounding variables. But this is a range which I have managed to keep the temp within.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Your concerns over him eating sand are justified. It is not something wild lizard do as they just would not survive. However, it seems sometimes in a captive situation, beardeds can pick up a scent or taste traces of something they consider edible in he sand. Some will pass it without issue and other can have problems resulting in an it becoming far too dry within the bowel and impeded to movement of further wastes = impaction.

The bath allows water to enter the colon (lower bowel) through the cloaca so long as the tail is held up at some stage, opening the vent. Addition of moisture to the dried impacted lumps can soften them sufficiently to allow them to be moved on by the bowel.

If the constipation or impaction was due to a eating sand then the wastes produced would show a high percentage of sand present.

The most common reason for constipation is insufficient hydration. Invariably this results from not taking in enough water. Dragons will often not drink still water. Put and air stone in there or run a small stream and they will respond by drinking as they require. The same applies to misting resulting in running droplets of water.

Blue