The problems facing GTP's

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It's odd for me to say this as a herp keeper, but I truly hate the animal trade. My country (the US) is seriously lacking in laws to keep crap like this from happening, makes me so mad... So, is there anything I can do to prevent this, aside from buying only captive bred?
I agree with you on some points. I believe we should restrict imports. Not ban them. In regards to what you can do about it, you can try to contact your seniter. Good luck with that though. You will recieve a pre written letter from his or her secretary. I'll be strait up with you though, you will not gain to many herp fans doing so.
 
ay, there's the rub...how do you get proof?

Hi Patrick
Pictures of breedings, pictures of eggs hatching etc. Starting this year i will be putting the days newspaper with hatching eggs.
Personally if i don't see pics of parents mating and eggs hatching i don't buy. I know people can just give pictures etc of animals but the Australian newspaper date in pics says a lot more.
 
DanN I agree with you, dont get me wrong, something should be done about this. The people who are catching these animals in the wild are doing what they need to do to feed their families, we might not agree with it, but from what i have read, this is the best way they know to survive.
The attitude of the Indonesia Government of 'we cant do anything about it so deny it' is troublesome, we all know that sweeping things under the rug doesnt fix them, but if you dont have the ability to fix the problem.... perhaps the first step might be to admit there is a problem?
Knowing a few people who work at the airport (AQIS) they do what they can and are good at it, but there are alot of smart smugglers out there too. Its not until you look at the volume of containers that come in on ships, people through airports and illegal boats that simply sail here that you comprehend how difficult it is too stop this kind of thing.
And no matter what we do, we will never stop the 'anyone got any cheap snakes for sale?' and the 'bargain' hunters who dont care where they came from , so long as they are cheap! That is human nature to way too many people (personally i pay $2 for the $1 thing i *need* instead of $1 for the $2 thing thats on sale)
As stated here a few times, so long as the smugglers have a market, they will find a way to do it, all we can do is make it harder and raise awareness to the general public.
 
They are good ideas, Ryan. This sort of practice should become standard. If buyers can distinguish between smuggled and captive bred effectively, they can choose to only buy captive-bred GTP's.
Hi Patrick
Pictures of breedings, pictures of eggs hatching etc. Starting this year i will be putting the days newspaper with hatching eggs.
Personally if i don't see pics of parents mating and eggs hatching i don't buy. I know people can just give pictures etc of animals but the Australian newspaper date in pics says a lot more.
 
They're all good ideas folks. Here is some more banter on the issue.
 

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  • Lyons and Natusch (2012) Consumer driven conservation of green pythons is possible if the price .pdf
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  • Pernetta (2012) Effective and sustainable farming of green pythons requires a sound chain of cus.pdf
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The only way some localised gtp populations will survive is tourism
In Misool and Kofiau it used to be very easy to see gtps
Within 2 years of canary yellows becoming popular it became very difficult to see any
Both of these islands are small, with few development or environmental changes

Same thing is happening with the latest craze for cyclops gtps
They come from near Jayapura and even the snake catchers are complaining that they cannot fill orders now

Most used to be shipped to Surabaya then to the farms around Jakarta to be processed as farmed
Or else through Balikpapan in Kalimantan which has an international airport with few controls
Manado in Sulawesi will always be a fairly open port too
After a couple of pretty significant busts the pattern is changing with most now being sent through Timor to Jakarta
3 shipments of gtps have been busted recently on this route
The major smuggler has operated with impunity for over 20 years and is untouchable even though he is not Indonesian and lives in Indonesia

As has been already said
You cannot blame the locals
We can only try to teach them that a gtp in a tree can only be sold once
But 100 tourists will pay to see a gtp in a tree rather than in a box at a zoo

Gtps were not commonly used for food skin or medicine in Papua
It is the pet trade that that has a lot to answer for in this particular case

The other byproduct of catching gtps is any other reptile that is seen
With gtps becoming scarcer in many areas other snakes etc are becoming targets because the catchers dont want to go home with empty bags

Only westerners can stop this as it is us who buy the gtps
 
An interesting study hopefully more such studies will be done on other species. With the right connections more of the truth about the good side of the animal trade could come out.
Unfortunately the study is flawed, simply because the authors are not involved in trade. Thus the data is not complete. In no way do I say this in a derogatory way. Basically unless you are involved with trade you will rarely get correct data. As an example, CITES commissioned a report on ball pythons many years ago, the author was having difficulty obtaining info from the traders. Luckily I was able to supply a large set of breeding data for him which was instrumental in him being able to make good conclusions.
It is also good to see the inclusion of using eggshells for proof of breeding. I introduced such an idea to the Malagasy CITES authorities ten years ago as a control mechanism for breeding operations.
As to some comments stated by members, better to understand before commenting, especially when emotions are in play :)
 
Hi Longqi,

I'm not sure tourism is the way either. Are tourists really going to pay to go all the way to Kofiau to not see a snake? It's a tough one. Also, unfortunately, the trade routes are not nearly as elaborate as you suggest. 90% of the greens leaving Papua go directly to Jakarta (or Bali). Therefore, I think less corruption and better enforcement at this one hub would stifle a lot of the trade... wishful thinking I know... but maybe worth a shot?

Euan, can you elaborate on how the data is incomplete? Also, which Malagasy species are regulated through the use of eggshells? Is this method still used there? What data did you provide the ball python report?
 
Hi Longqi,

I'm not sure tourism is the way either. Are tourists really going to pay to go all the way to Kofiau to not see a snake? It's a tough one. Also, unfortunately, the trade routes are not nearly as elaborate as you suggest. 90% of the greens leaving Papua go directly to Jakarta (or Bali). Therefore, I think less corruption and better enforcement at this one hub would stifle a lot of the trade... wishful thinking I know... but maybe worth a shot?

Euan, can you elaborate on how the data is incomplete? Also, which Malagasy species are regulated through the use of eggshells? Is this method still used there? What data did you provide the ball python report?

Been a few good busts on the Jakarta and Bali run in past 2 years so Timor by boat then flight out was the new option for big shipments
Balikpapan has always quietly moved a lot of animals directly to corruption free Singapore

Must agree about Misool and Kofiau as they are not easy to get to so tourism to those spots is very expensive
But mainland Papua is getting easier all the time and although expensive compared to the rest of Indonesia can be cheap once you hit the ground if hotels etc are avoided
There are plenty of places on the mainland with loads of reptiles and fairly easy access, and if those areas preserve the reptiles through tourism other areas will follow the lead hopefully

Corruption is so inbuilt right through Indonesia that it is commented on in every newspaper and tv on a daily basis
But Jakarta Airport has tightened up a lot in the last year or so with a lot of small to medium arrests
 
Hi Longqi,

I'm not sure tourism is the way either. Are tourists really going to pay to go all the way to Kofiau to not see a snake? It's a tough one. Also, unfortunately, the trade routes are not nearly as elaborate as you suggest. 90% of the greens leaving Papua go directly to Jakarta (or Bali). Therefore, I think less corruption and better enforcement at this one hub would stifle a lot of the trade... wishful thinking I know... but maybe worth a shot?

Euan, can you elaborate on how the data is incomplete? Also, which Malagasy species are regulated through the use of eggshells? Is this method still used there? What data did you provide the ball python report?
I disagree. I think Eco-tourism would be a win win. It would give the natives incentive not to capture and export native fauna, and it well generate money for them. As far as the expenses it may get cheaper if they get a good system in place.
 
A large part of the problem is countries permitting imports...thats where the demand comes from. Wild caught animals are laundered and acquire paperwork to legitimise them. Developing countries will never have the resources to enforce the trade. The US and Europe have more than enough animals to sustain captive breeding within their jurisdictions. Ban new imports and the trade would effectively die overnight leraving a small number illegally imported. US law enforcement dealing with their own illegal trade would significantly alleviate the problem. Their Lacy Act is powerful tool that deals harsh penalties at home.
 
In my honest opinion importing reptiles is what fules the expansion of herpiculture. Reptiles that are not normally in the trade or is verry unusual can be the next new hottest morph. I hate all there reptiles and all other animals for that matter that illegally imported. I wish a verry limited amount of reptiles can be imported each year. If its regulated strictly by all sided. But we don't live in a perfect world. I honestly things wll change. But I'm not holding my breath. As long as there is beginners and people willing to sell wc and ch reptiles there will be imports.
 
I agree with you on some points. I believe we should restrict imports. Not ban them. In regards to what you can do about it, you can try to contact your seniter. Good luck with that though. You will recieve a pre written letter from his or her secretary. I'll be strait up with you though, you will not gain to many herp fans doing so.

Don't misunderstand me- I don't think it should be shut down either. I just think that some more restrictions are in order. My other hobby is carnivorous plant growing, and poaching is a big issue there. The unregulated trade of any plant or animal is a sore topic with me. I know that there are people who gather and import responsibly, it's just that I hate seeing stuff like the OP posted happening.
 
Don't misunderstand me- I don't think it should be shut down either. I just think that some more restrictions are in order. My other hobby is carnivorous plant growing, and poaching is a big issue there. The unregulated trade of any plant or animal is a sore topic with me. I know that there are people who gather and import responsibly, it's just that I hate seeing stuff like the OP posted happening.
That is exactly what I was trying to say. I also feel the same way. I hate seeing animals imported period but like this especially.
 
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