Australia / QLD laws on jags

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woody101

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Whats the laws on breeding in QLD ?? Ive seen jungle x diamond for sale and wonder if its possible to breed them in QLD ???
 
Here we go..........:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 
Straight from the relevant legislation to save you the legwork and effort of finding it yourself:

In Queensland, all native birds, reptiles, mammals (except the dingo), and amphibians are protected animals under the Nature Conservation Act 1992. A number of native spiders, scorpions, butterflies and freshwater fish
are also protected. The grey nurse shark (Carcharias taurus) is also protected.

92 Restriction on breeding etc. hybrids of protected animals
(1) A person must not—
(a) knowingly breed a hybrid or mutation of a protected
animal; or
(b) abandon a hybrid or mutation of a protected animal in
the wild;
other than under a regulation or exemption under a regulation.
Maximum penalty—165 penalty units.
(2) A person must not release a hybrid or mutation of a protected
animal into the wild other than under a conservation plan for
the protected animal.[s 93]


Maximum penalty—165 penalty units or 1 year’s
imprisonment.

The short answer, having interpreted all the information above - NO, not legally.
 
A jag isn't a cross breed or a hybrid so no

If it isnt a cross breed then how come people are selling 50% jungle 50% MD Jags? And how come there are alot of well known breeders in queensland ( not going to name names ) That cross breed and sell them as jags and get away with it.?
 
If it isnt a cross breed then how come people are selling 50% jungle 50% MD Jags? And how come there are alot of well known breeders in queensland ( not going to name names ) That cross breed and sell them as jags and get away with it.?

Sub-species level crosses, not species level crosses. Like breeding a horse to a Przewalski's horse vs horse to donkey breeding.
 
Sub-species level crosses, not species level crosses. Like breeding a horse to a Przewalski's horse vs horse to donkey breeding.

I think it would be classed as cross breeding, in other words creating mongrel animals, like in dogs, German Shepard x rottweiler creates a cross bred animal.

A Hybrid is between species but not sub species.
 
Straight from the relevant legislation to save you the legwork and effort of finding it yourself:





The short answer, having interpreted all the information above - NO, not legally.
so if thats the case whats an albino darwin , i thought those where a genetic mutation/morph so by that legislation in qld your not even allowed to breed albino darwins? just curious as it mentions mutations , is mutation the same as morph
 
I think it is a bit of a grey area in Qld.

The term hybrid or mutation, i think, is a very loose term. It is up to you on how you interpret their legislation if you want to argue it with them. "Mutation" could be classed as a "hybrid", not a genetic trait. It would be interesting to know what exactly DERM class as a hybrid.

I think if questioned you could argue most the jag crossings as not being hybrid depending on how you understand taxonomy, with bredli/chondro's and rsp crosses being a bit more difficult. I did ask them the question on albinos years ago, and they were not concerned as long as it was a pure darwin, not a cross with anything else (not that they would be able to tell, or have the ability/funds to start dna testing).

What are people putting on their qld MA's? just morelia spilota? or do you go as far as m.s.mcdowelli, cheynei etc?
 
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Fact is, the government cares very little about we do with these snakes... as long as we give them our money. They say cross breeding and breeding mutations is illegal, but they won't do anything about it. I really struggle to believe 99% of government employees who work with the EPA and all that, would be able to identify any except the most common of species.
 
If it isnt a cross breed then how come people are selling 50% jungle 50% MD Jags? And how come there are alot of well known breeders in queensland ( not going to name names ) That cross breed and sell them as jags and get away with it.?

Your examples are crossbreeds. A normal Jag isn't a cross breed. It's a Coastal mutation.
 
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a purebred jag tbh. I don't believe for a second the so called "rpm" snakes are pure (america has pure jags now?).
 
You're probably right notech but that is still a technical loop hole. A normal Jag is a regular Coastal mutation. No crossbreeding so no "illegal" activity
 
l think one reason for no illegal activity notices is the Govt. $$$$$ and/or lack of a "clear" case against someone......solar 17
 
I think it has its merits in some respects and in others is rubbish. Firstly, the latest research has shown that the only distinct and separate taxons of carpet are the centralian, south western and then everything else. Genetically the everything else (inland/eastern/northern) just merge into each other through naturally occurring intergrades - e.g. jungles and coastals are just local area colour and pattern variants of the broader population of eastern carpets with no definitive genetic or biochemical distinction. Even the inland carpets (e.g. MDs) and eastern coast carpets (e.g. coastals, jungles, diamonds) show continuity in genetics and no distinct separation.

However, when it comes to all the east coast forms (e.g. jungles, coastals, inlands etc) there are no scientifically and hence legally distinguishable populations and so to carry on about not crossing them is a rubbish. In this State, there is no legislative requirement to distinguish them and even if there was they can't be distinguished. On top of that, most captive pythons in Australia come from few founder animals that have all been crossed with each other. There are very few pure bred locality animals. In the old days, if you could get two carpets of different sexes you put them together no matter where they came from. If they came out looking like a coastal you called them a coastal and if they came out looking like a jungle you called them a jungle. Captive animals are just a big mish mash of different pythons which come from wild populations that can't be definitively defined anyway.

However, crossing SW carpets or Centralians with any of the eastern forms is definitely crossing distinct populations which can be determined scientifically and so have some legal status (if the permit system matches this reality).

So what do I think will happen - nothing unless you are silly enough to cross carpets that are genetically distinguishable ... I'm sure ignorant members of the Dept will leap up and down and threaten this and that with the eastern carpet forms, but it is all rubbish and cannot and will not progress past empty threats. I have spoken to a number of our eminent herpetological scientists about this and they all can't even understand why anyone would care what is done with captive populations. Its a myth that they could be used for reintroductions to the wild for too many reasons to list here and all captive animals end up a genetic mish mash anyway ... dogs, cats, pigeons, parrots, horses etc etc

I would be interested to see at what % cross would a bredli jags DNA be indistinguishable to a pure bredli? third/forth gen?
 
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I think you'd be hard pressed to find a purebred jag tbh. I don't believe for a second the so called "rpm" snakes are pure (america has pure jags now?).

since jag to jag breeding doesnt work how could anyone believe they had a 'pure' jag??
 
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