woma python worries

[inky79]

Hey everyone, nice site. I'm after some tips and to be told to grow a pair and stop being a wimp

maybe i just expect to be called a wimp because i feel that way lol

i have handled a few different snakes in the past but don't have tons of experience. Ive always been confident though. i looked after corns for year and ive kept a royal python for nearly 18 months. Anyhow i decided to get a woma python because after research and chats with the guy at the pet shop they sounded easy enough to handle etc. despite the odd biting story and their feeding response being like no other snake i figured why not go for it..For 2 weeks Ive had a new woma and after leaving it alone to settle i figured it time to feed. This was a couple of days back. I hooked him out of the vivarium and got it in my hands... He kinda gave a little squeeze and wouldn't go into the rub which contained a nice mouse for him. he was cool enough though. the squeeze wasn't hard and after 5 mins he seemed to loosen up and chill..that was until he turned suddenly and struck out at my face. wow he was close lol. by total accident i must have let his head reach the floor and a level service because he straightened up a made a speedy bolt out of my hands. using the hook i stopped him getting away. Everything seemed under control until he took a leap from floor to face. The 150cm jump was impressive but freaked me out..I pushed him and span him a little before hooking him and placing him in the viv..

Long story short..lol. He still hasn't been fed or out of the viv since. I tried today but he tried to bite the hook. I admit i am now nervous of him. I don't want this to show next time i attempt to handle or feed. Any suggestions on how to overcome this. should i just get bitten lol. maybe it will help if i know how painful a bite is or isn't?

The bloke in the reptile shop said he was a nice snake so I don't want to give up on him and sell him without trying..I don't know anyone with woma pythons let alone anyone with major experience keeping and handling snakes. it also seems there are limited woma python keepers in the UK. any help and advice will be appreciated. cheers in advance

 

[Morgan_dragon]

Sounds like you were both freaked out from the experience!

Let him chill for a day or so and give him his first feed in his enclosure....from a pair of tongs. Then give him 5 or 6 days and another feed, give him a few days to digest it and then get him out and see how he is.

All our woma's except 1 are that placid we can put our hands in their enclosures and pick them up out of it (although we do still use hooks on the larger ones). The large male however does not like going back in his enclosure until his ready and is quick to turn and latch on if he can!

Oh and if its a decent size woma expect a decent bite - they have nice strong jaws


Goodluck.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

There was a thread on here a few days ago about just this behaviour in Womas. Some Womas have a "threshold of agitation" - it seems you pass that limit when removing it from the enclosure. Is there any reason why you did this just for feeding? It's not necessary, and will not change the behaviour of the snake when you want to feed or just handle it, despite what you might read here. The likelyhood of copping a bite has much more to do with the way you approach the animal, regardless of where it is. MOST Womas are fairly placid MOST of the time, but like their Genus mates, the Black-headed Python, they can become very excitable indeed, quite unlike Morelias, and will thrash and strike and vibrate their tails at the slightest movement, and this behaviour can persist for hours or days sometimes, whenever they see you nearby.

The best plan of attack is to cover the enclosure so that you limit stimuli which kick off this behaviour, and make a habit of feeding the animal in its enclosure. It will likely return to normal placid behaviour over time, but just now it's telling you that it doesn't want anything to do with you at this point in time, so you'll have to let it settle. There are no guarantees though, and just what kicks this behaviour off in some snakes is a mystery to me.

As I said, they are very different to any of the Carpets and other commonly kept species.

Oh... and grow a pair !

Jamie

 

[inky79]

lol Jamie will do

Cheers for the replies guys. Morgan you are brave going in with hands. I have no problem doing this with my lazy royal ball python. A woma is sooo much faster it's unlikely something i'd try even if he calms right down. Have you been bitten? going in hands first? or just because because?. This threshold of agitation you mention pythoninfinite doe's make me wonder how long a woma should be handled?. 5 mins 10 mins? once a day or once a week? less? lol :?

my royal is handled daily and he seems a very happy chap. He gets fed in his house because he is very shy when it comes to eating out. He just wouldn't eat for months. Even in the viv. One day he just started eating again..and he hasn't stopped since..I reckon he would be a greedy devil if I let him lol

The corn snakes i looked after for a year for a friend were handled once or twice a week and all 3 of them were fine with this...well at least they never took a bite or showed aggression or agitation. They were always taken out and put into a RUB when it was feeding time. It's interesting they didn't seem to associate coming out as a sign food was coming..I mean they didn't go into some sort of hunting mode and get all bitey. I imagine with womas being such pigs they could get the idea coming out is food time. Thanks for the info on feeding inside the enclosure. Some people say its not the way to do it because the snake might get all "cage defensive" anytime someone tries to enter it. This is the reason I tried to get the woma out for feeding. Well that won't happen again!!. I am very happy to report I followed your feed in the vivarium suggestions and he munched a nice mouse last night

From now on its night time for feeding and day time for handling time. Assuming mr woma agrees with this schedule all should be good.

listening/reading what you guys have said and posted here really helped a lot. nice one

My nervousness defo seems to be going away a little at a time..maybe a pair has stared to grow hahaha. A bite might change things one way or another but for now i think everything is cool. I recorded the little fella and the royal using a webcam the other night after the face striking incident..its poor quality but its on youtube anyways!!. This exercise helped straighten head a lot. It shows me he isn't demonic and attacking everything in sight

cheers again guys, much appreciated

 

[Raymonde]

this may or may not be typical of all woma's, but mine only tightly constricts when she is in 'food mode', its one of the ways i know she is likely to bite me and its only ever happened when she was due to be fed, the rest of the time she is inquisitive and very friendly (well as friendly as any snake can be). when she does bite she tends to hang on, and i can only get her off by putting her head under luke warm running water. The bite when they are small really isn't that bad, just like a bunch of pin pricks. However i am very careful not to get within striking range (as in don't open the cage unless she is up the other end) if i have been anywhere near rats or mice, not that i have tried it but i think she would probably have a go at me.

Don't give up on your woma yet, they are such great snakes

 

[thomasssss]

lol Jamie will do

Cheers for the replies guys. Morgan you are brave going in with hands. I have no problem doing this with my lazy royal ball python. A woma is sooo much faster it's unlikely something i'd try even if he calms right down. Have you been bitten? going in hands first? or just because because?. This threshold of agitation you mention pythoninfinite doe's make me wonder how long a woma should be handled?. 5 mins 10 mins? once a day or once a week? less? lol :?
:

this is really dependant on the individual , my male can be out for around 20 mins half hour and hes fine but if theres heaps of people or something just doesn't feel right for him he gets really flighty so he gets returned , my female on the other hand doesn't care and can be out for alot longer and will just cruise around

as for going in with your hands thats how i do it and ive been fine only coped one bite so far but it was the full feed response it really is up to you on how you approach it

 

[inky79]

i tell you what its helped to know what to expect from a bite. how long have you kept womas thomasssss?. Do you have any photos?. i'd love to see pics if anyones got any. They look amazing!!. in fact the more photos i see and the more im starting to think their the worlds best looking snake

anyways you both go in with hands and raymonde you say you wait til your snake is up the other end of the enclosure before opening it and going in. ive got my yet to be named woma in a vivexotic. when i opened it last time he zoomed up to me so fast i closed it and went with the hook. the outcome of that is known..it kinda worked lol.

oh ray when you go when you open his house does she remain fairly still and calm? or bolt towards you?. i was wondering if mr ??? sped towards me so he could take a bite or if he did this just because he wanted out..i guess its hard to say but something tells me he had the munchies and figured to eat me first think later :lol:

again thanks for the info and sorry for asking a ton of questions

 

[apprenticegnome]

Just curious as to what temperature you keep him at and what fom of heating you use. I had a grumpy blackhead due a temperature issue which settled back down when I rectified the setup.

 

[traceylee]

I was going to ask about temps too.
My woma has been nothing short of the worlds easiest snake - as my 'learner' she copped it all and nothing has fazed her at all. She's still in a tub, so I reach in to grab her and she doesn't get bothered. If let be; she will pop her head over the top edge, but she's never come at me or sped out like you are describing.
I wouldn't change her for all the money in the world

 

[inky79]

Hello apprentice mate, hi traceylee. Temps are controlled by a habistat thermostat. I set it to around 90 during the day and a little lower during the night. I think it gets a little below 80c during the night but i need to keep an eye on this to make sure. Temps are taken using an exo terra thermo-hygro thermometer. the probe sits closer to the warm end but raised off the substrate. is this the correct place to have it placed?. im looking for something else which will actually sit in the viv. i saw something not long ago..cant for the life of me find it now though. does anyone know a product that looks a bit like a small clock..and yes i said small clock, not..lol

anyways something more accurate that can be moved about the viv would be helpful. getting temps right is always a worry. it took a while to get the royals house sorted. had to borrow a temp gun and setup a couple of different thermometers to get that sorted out. prince sumana must have felt an instant benefit because he ate his first meal shortly after. He had been off food a while before i got him and a couple of months passed in my company and food still wasn't on his mind. damn amazing how snakes can go without food so long like that. He's about 5 years old and never lost a gram

oh and the woma is also 5 years old..he could be a bit set in his ways?

 

[Coastal_Girl]

I have an older woma. He is great. He gets a little tempermental when hes feeding but hes never bitten I can grab him straight out of his enclosure. They are very curious and will try to get down and explore. Keep him well fed and you shouldnt have any problems with him. Also, some snakes dont like being handled with the snake hook. We had one that had only been handled with a hook and it was really aggressive. As soon as we got it we handled it without one and it calmed right down. As for a bite, I think everyone who handles snakes gets bitten eventually. Try not to stress. Have fun with him. They are awesome pets. Good luck

 

[inky79]

cheers for your words Coastal_Girl. Not using a hook would be better tbh. i didn't feel comfortable using it so maybe someone grabbing mr ? with a piece of metal was the final straw that got him p*ssed off !!. He had a long journey the week before and i'd be stressed if someone chucked me in a bag and locked me in a polystyrene box' for hours. he's also the 1st snake i've tried using a hook on,, so yeh you could be right, hands maybe better in the long run

heres a photo just after he slid out of the bag..yep im wearing gloves, hahaha i know, grow a pair :lol:

 

[apprenticegnome]

I'm not sure if womas are along the same care line as blackheads but I originally had a heat mat in with my blackhead. Although the temp was adequate the ambient air temp was far too cold. As soon as I installed a heat lamp and warmed the air his temperament calmed down. This was a little oversight when I first setup the tank but in hindsight the blackheads come from the top of Australia and live in very warm air temps both day and night.

 

[Raymonde]

anyways you both go in with hands and raymonde you say you wait til your snake is up the other end of the enclosure before opening it and going in. ive got my yet to be named woma in a vivexotic. when i opened it last time he zoomed up to me so fast i closed it and went with the hook. the outcome of that is known..it kinda worked lol.

oh ray when you go when you open his house does she remain fairly still and calm? or bolt towards you?. i was wondering if mr ??? sped towards me so he could take a bite or if he did this just because he wanted out..i guess its hard to say but something tells me he had the munchies and figured to eat me first think later :lol:

I am only hesitant to open the cage when i have been around rats or it is the day of feeding, the rest of the time she is easy going, i just don't trust her when it comes to feeding as she can move really fast when there is a rat in front of her. The rest of the time i usually give her a moment to realise its me and not food before putting my hand in and grabbing her.

She does move towards me most times i open the cage, i wouldn't call it bolting, its more cruising over to me to see what i am and what i am doing. its one of the things i love about her, that she always comes to investigate what's going on, or sticks her head out of the hide to see who is there, even if you don't open the cage.

here are some pictures
The first one is constricting behaviour and sure enough a short while later she bit me hence the second picture with my lovely snake bracelet. My family and friends think i am a bit strange for then pausing to take several pictures while she was biting me, but its not too painful and i now have cool pictures. My woma is still quite small and yours is probably bigger and can give a bit more painful bite but i still think it shouldn't be too bad....
In the third picture she is actually investigating a blade of grass... she does this all the time where she goes up to some random things and smells it with her tongue. I guess there is something interesting there that i just can't tell as my senses are so under developed compared to other animals ...
the last photo is of her avoiding touching the grass, i think it freaks her out although she is getting better.... very much a captive bred snake

for size reference, in most of those photos, she is about 7 months old, 90cm long and 250grams. She is now 11months old, about 110cm and 500grams although those are guesses as i haven't weighed or measured her in a while..

 

[Fluffysnake]

long post......but i wrote it so read it

Even experienced handlers occasionally realise OMG I'M ABOUT TO GRAB A SNAKE!!! one of the first things we all learn as children is SNAKES WILL KILL YOU!!! Here are some tips to make it easier for both of you.............

Firstly understand that feed response and defense response are very different.
Feed response is triggered by hunger and/or scent of food, but can also be accidentally triggered by habits. To a certain extent natural feeding behaviour can be "trained out" by removing the snakes need to hunt and strike.
NEVER dangle food infront of your snake unless they are bad feeders,
(in which case feed response is not a danger to avoid)
I know it's fun and impresses your friends but think of what it teaches the snake -
YOU HAVE FOOD AND I HAVE TO CATCH IT!!!
For this reason I don't interact with my snakes near feeding time as they can start to associate you with dinner.
The last thing you want is a snake that thinks you are food!!!

I have carpet tiles in my enclosures so I basically hurl a warm rat or two into the enclosure when the snake is sleeping and try to avoid them seeing me. A couple of minutes later the snake has eaten it and usually if it's not being dangled infront of their face they won't strike it, and don't seem to get so excited about it all. Once dinner is over and the snake has settled, I swap out the carpet mat with a clean one to remove all scent, and once again try to avoid interacting with the snake.
I do this with a regular feeding routine and my snakes barely show feeding response, they know where food is at the right time and eat quietly. I think I could almost hand feed one of my snakes !!

Secondly, defensive behavior - this depends on the individual snake.
Lots of snakes are cage defensive - the only answer is get them out of there - Quick. If they are laying still, they are probably asleep. I usually knock on the enclosure really loud to wake them up so they aren't startled when you go in. You would'nt like it if someone tried to pick you up with a snake hook, only use it to control the snake, and remember snakes are very sensitive to temperature, a snake hook is cold steel - warm it up with your hand first.
If your fussing about and waiting for the right time, they are only getting more agitated. They don't know your intentions either, they just see you poking them with a hook!! The quicker you pick them up, the quicker you are in control of the situation.
Give them a quick belly rub with the hook, then as they turn to leave, GOTCHA!!
Ultimately, you have to get to know your snake. If any of mine are unusually aggressive, I look at their log book and commonly find they are due to shed, which can make them grumpy.
If they really don't want to play I'll just leave them alone, because, well, OMG IT'S A SNAKE!!

P.S. Strike bite from a 2m Carpet Python feels like being slapped really hard with a wet wire brush, it will bleed lots, and it will freak you out , But get over it and stop being a wimp

 

[inky79]

lol i'm trying to bury the wimp don't worry fluffy . my tattooist made a good point with his needle last night..ummm suddenly a bite doesn't seem so bad !!

sorry for taking a while to reply ya'll. thanks for the comments and tips. all appreciated..

nice photos raymonde. Love the one in the garden. It's nice when snakes and what not can have a roam like that. my royal python prince loves the garden on a hot day. he will go a good half hour before he makes his way back inside. its funny he knows his way around lol.

anyhow from all the vids watched and posted read it seems womas like hanging on a while once they have taken a bite hey..got you a cool looking bracelet though mate. good job managing to grab a camera :lol:

apprentice I'll have a think about fitting a lamp. probably a good idea tbh. Over the last few days the temps have been probed top middle bottom with a couple of different thermometers. sat well above the heat mat and in the middle of a 4ft viv one of the temps always stayed mid 80's. i assume this means air temp is kinda being measured?..and things aren't on the cold cold side of things?.

 

[Miss_Stripey]

Gotta love Womas!!! Hope you two get along eventually. He will calm down when he settles in and gets a nice feed. Sometimes if mine get to hungry or to excited i open the door and let them cruise out themselves. Once they have their head up and out Its easier to grab them as sometimes a big scary hand going in there is an easy prey to target and strike. If they are really naughty i will hold them by the head like a venomous snake until we are out and away from the cage(never grab them by the head to hard it can freak them out and the other hand is still supporting the rest of the body).

The easy thing with Womas is they are very easy to predict their mood and they are very rarely aggressive more just excited for food. Never feed them inside the enclosure and u should solve half the cage protection problem but since u have only just got yours id say its just a little bit scared. Give it a week at least to relax and claim its new Territory then give it a feed. Once its settled and fed it should calm down.

 

[Nellynake]

put some thick gloves on and try and take him//her out of the enclosure.

 

[digizure]

I know the feeling. I have two females and they're both related. I got them when they were about 4 months old and they are about a year old. I am still unable to handle them. I feed them in another bin because I don't want to trigger their hunger when feeding them in their own tubs.

I can only pick them up with their tail and use my other hand to hold the mid-section. OR, I use gloves. Kinda a bummer because I wish they were better at handling. Awesome snakes though.