Reptiles in NSW pet shop

[thomasssss]

At the moment ,might change though

it will not change that statement is laughable

 

[caliherp]

it will not change that statement is laughable

It really is. I have kept reptiles for 16 years now and have only bought one reptile from a pet store. That was 12 years ago. There will always be a demand for quality animals. Don't get me wrong there are quite a few speciality reptile shops here in the u.s aswell as Australia, but they are few and far inbetween. Pet shops are great for exposing newcomers to our hobby. But they will soon realize the worth of privet breeders.

 

[Anunnaki]

At the moment ,might change though

I agree. Let's be honest, the government doesn't give 2 hoots about reptiles or their welfare all they care about is money. Imagine the revenue they will be making when they allow pet shops to start selling reptiles, not only will they be charging shops the exorbitant amount for the right to sell them but the influx of new licenses that will come from it.
As with all things regarding the government the ones who bring in the most revenue have the most sway, it will only be a matter of time before the pet shops start to see how much money they are losing to the private trade and start complaining and demanding.

I honestly can't understand why any avid reptile keeper would support the selling of reptiles in shops, we see enough exploitation of reptiles in the private trade yet alone on a commercial scale. Time for the government to grow a set and stop giving in to demands simply because it will produce revenue.

 

[caliherp]

I agree. Let's be honest, the government doesn't give 2 hoots about reptiles or their welfare all they care about is money. Imagine the revenue they will be making when they allow pet shops to start selling reptiles, not only will they be charging shops the exorbitant amount for the right to sell them but the influx of new licenses that will come from it.
As with all things regarding the government the ones who bring in the most revenue have the most sway, it will only be a matter of time before the pet shops start to see how much money they are losing to the private trade and start complaining and demanding.

I honestly can't understand why any avid reptile keeper would support the selling of reptiles in shops, we see enough exploitation of reptiles in the private trade yet alone on a commercial scale. Time for the government to grow a set and stop giving in to demands simply because it will produce revenue.

You all could creat the Australian version of USARK(United States Assoation of Reptile keepers). The AARK.

United States Association of Reptile Keepers

 

[KaotikJezta]

I agree. Let's be honest, the government doesn't give 2 hoots about reptiles or their welfare all they care about is money. Imagine the revenue they will be making when they allow pet shops to start selling reptiles, not only will they be charging shops the exorbitant amount for the right to sell them but the influx of new licenses that will come from it.
As with all things regarding the government the ones who bring in the most revenue have the most sway, it will only be a matter of time before the pet shops start to see how much money they are losing to the private trade and start complaining and demanding.

I honestly can't understand why any avid reptile keeper would support the selling of reptiles in shops, we see enough exploitation of reptiles in the private trade yet alone on a commercial scale. Time for the government to grow a set and stop giving in to demands simply because it will produce revenue.

That is absolute rubbish. For a start off we are not allowed to sell advanced licence species in shops in Victoria and as it is a lot stricter when it comes to upgrading to advanced in NSW, I would say the same would apply there. It is also not common to find rarer basic licence species in shops here and if you do find them it is generally because the shop or someone that works there breeds them. There will always be a place for private breeders. I have bought way more animals from breeders than through the shop and as my collection is at the stage where I am after very specific thing s now, I am unlikely to find what I am looking for in a shop. Then there are the breeders that buy equipment and food off us and supply animals to us. It is cutting our own throats to try and get rid of private breeders.

 

[zulu]

There is a few things they could do to restrict hobbyists ,like bring in a breeders license.
My guess is if they ever go for the selling of reptiles in petshops they will be selling expensive licenses to so which would basically be dealers licenses to buy and then sell straight away without the 6 months wait.
I expect they would back them up as they do in WA ,that wonderful system that they have over there, just never know.

 

[Anunnaki]

That is absolute rubbish. For a start off we are not allowed to sell advanced licence species in shops in Victoria and as it is a lot stricter when it comes to upgrading to advanced in NSW, I would say the same would apply there. It is also not common to find rarer basic licence species in shops here and if you do find them it is generally because the shop or someone that works there breeds them. There will always be a place for private breeders. I have bought way more animals from breeders than through the shop and as my collection is at the stage where I am after very specific thing s now, I am unlikely to find what I am looking for in a shop.

Sorry but what do VIC laws have to do with NSW? Our private licensing is completely different so what would make you assume that the commercial license would be the same?
Your remarks are filled with "I","I","I"...we aren't talking about you or the pet shop shop you work at we are talking about a brand new licensing system for a brand new sector of commercial selling.

 

[Ramsayi]

It will most likely have a huge impact on not just breeders but also keepers in general.

The entire mandatory cage size debacle is a direct result of pets shops being allowed to sell reptiles.As I understand it another government department DPI will also be involved so we all may end up with 2 departments imposing new restrictions on us all.

 

[caliherp]

There will always be a place for private breeders. I have bought way more animals from breeders than through the shop and as my collection is at the stage where I am after very specific thing s now, I am unlikely to find what I am looking for in a shop. Then there are the breeders that buy equipment and food off us and supply animals to us. It is cutting our own throats to try and get rid of private breeders.

Bingo! The more newbies that get lured in by the pet shops will eventually want "specific" reptiles they won't find in shops. Pet shops can and will help the hobby in Australia. As long as the government doesn't get involved?(don't quote me on that)

 

[Stevo2]

I suspect that it's going to mark the end of the world.

 

[Justdragons]

Bingo! The more newbies that get lured in by the pet shops will eventually want "specific" reptiles they won't find in shops. Pet shops can and will help the hobby in Australia. As long as the government doesn't get involved?(don't quote me on that)

Lol

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You know what i think would boost the hobby here... being able to export animals over seas... NO IMPORTS HOWEVER.

 

[KaotikJezta]

Sorry but what do VIC laws have to do with NSW? Our private licensing is completely different so what would make you assume that the commercial license would be the same?
Your remarks are filled with "I","I","I"...we aren't talking about you or the pet shop shop you work at we are talking about a brand new licensing system for a brand new sector of commercial selling.

I used to live in NSW, I am well aware of the licencing laws there. Sorry used the I word again. Don't get crabby with me because I disagree with what you say. As stated, licencing is stricter in NSW for private keepers so it could be assumed it would be even worse for commercial entities. Try reading the post properly next time.The main reason advanced species can't be purchased in shops in Vic is so people are not able to sell vens and potentially put the public at risk, cannot see it being any different there so unless you actually have some insider information to the contrary your argument is null and void. It would also be unlikely that breeders with unique and expensive animals would sell to shops either so also unlikely that private breeders will be destroyed, on the contrary, it will be an avenue for selling common hard to move animals. Most people that are starting out with reptiles don't have any idea how to find breeders and it is better to buy from a shop with knowledgeable staff than buy of gumtree and get a neglected and possibly unhealthy animal. Attacking someone personally is always a great strategy when losing an argument.

 

[thomasssss]

As with all things regarding the government the ones who bring in the most revenue have the most sway, it will only be a matter of time before the pet shops start to see how much money they are losing to the private trade and start complaining and demanding.
.

why is it that the reptile hobby will be any different from dogs , cats birds , fish you name it , have pet shops demanded to outlaw your average dog breeder or any of those i named , come on people use some common sense

on the same point why will nsw be any different to QLD or VIC , private breeders there haven't faded away or had any breeding restrictions put in place just because the pet shops demanded it because they lost profit to them

i bet you lot believe the worlds coming to an end and 911 is all a big conspiracy

 

[Anunnaki]

I used to live in NSW, I am well aware of the licencing laws there. Sorry used the I word again. Don't get crabby with me because I disagree with what you say. As stated, licencing is stricter in NSW for private keepers so it could be assumed it would be even worse for commercial entities. Try reading the post properly next time.The main reason advanced species can't be purchased in shops in Vic is so people are not able to sell vens and potentially put the public at risk, cannot see it being any different there so unless you actually have some insider information to the contrary your argument is null and void. It would also be unlikely that breeders with unique and expensive animals would sell to shops either so also unlikely that private breeders will be destroyed, on the contrary, it will be an avenue for selling common hard to move animals. Most people that are starting out with reptiles don't have any idea how to find breeders and it is better to buy from a shop with knowledgeable staff than buy of gumtree and get a neglected and possibly unhealthy animal. Attacking someone personally is always a great strategy when losing an argument.

You seem to contradict yourself. So you believe NSW will follow similar laws to VIC right? I quote "it will be an avenue for selling common hard to move animals"(your own words) Please explain when animals like keelbacks,slatey greys,painted dragons,green tree snakes,mangrove monitors, mertens water monitors, hosmer's skinks etc became "common hard to move animals"? Perhaps you should have a look at the Amazing amazon website and see their current livestock for sale....Not a single one of those animals is not what I would call common. Do you personally know how often a young D. punctulata is meant to feed? Do you know the methods of enticing this species to eat for themselves or how to force feed? I doubt you do and I doubt the general public would be up to the task to try to perform these methods.
Do you know about the hosmer's communal living habits?

My point is that nobody knows as much about a species as a longtime keeper/breeder does. You can read all of the books and forum posts you like but it accounts for absolutely nothing compared to real life experience! So to sit there and try to tell someone like myself who has kept a few of these species that a cashier who has read a few paragraphs from books is as knowledgeable as a breeder is laughable. The hours that go in to some of the above species is astronomical as anyone who has worked with them will know.
But I'm sure you know all of the procedures that go along with all the above species since they can legally be sold commercially in your state

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why is it that the reptile hobby will be any different from dogs , cats birds , fish you name it , have pet shops demanded to outlaw your average dog breeder or any of those i named , come on people use some common sense

on the same point why will nsw be any different to QLD or VIC , private breeders there haven't faded away or had any breeding restrictions put in place just because the pet shops demanded it because they lost profit to them

i bet you lot believe the worlds coming to an end and 911 is all a big conspiracy

Are cats, fish, dogs etc protected? I don't think they are mate.
As long as they are not a LISTED noxious species or on CITES they are completely legal

 

[Chris]

Another quality thread. From someone who lives in a state where the laws are as 'relaxed' as anywhere in Australia, personally I can't see what some of you are worried about. Little will change. The sun will still come up tomorrow.

 

[thomasssss]

Are cats, fish, dogs etc protected? I don't think they are mate.
As long as they are not a LISTED noxious species or on CITES they are completely legal

no but you still haven't answered why it will be any different to QLD and VIC in regards to private breeders dying out and pet shops making demands and complaining

WHY WILL NSW BE ANY DIFFERENT TO QLD , WHERE PRIVATE BREEDERS STILL FLOURISH , answer that please dont just tippy toe around the question

 

[Red-Ink]

Petshop or breeder.... Caveat emptor

 

[ubermensch]

You seem to contradict yourself. So you believe NSW will follow similar laws to VIC right? I quote "it will be an avenue for selling common hard to move animals"(your own words) Please explain when animals like keelbacks,slatey greys,painted dragons,green tree snakes,mangrove monitors, mertens water monitors, hosmer's skinks etc became "common hard to move animals"? Perhaps you should have a look at the Amazing amazon website and see their current livestock for sale....Not a single one of those animals is not what I would call common. Do you personally know how often a young D. punctulata is meant to feed? Do you know the methods of enticing this species to eat for themselves or how to force feed? I doubt you do and I doubt the general public would be up to the task to try to perform these methods.
Do you know about the hosmer's communal living habits?

My point is that nobody knows as much about a species as a longtime keeper/breeder does. You can read all of the books and forum posts you like but it accounts for absolutely nothing compared to real life experience! So to sit there and try to tell someone like myself who has kept a few of these species that a cashier who has read a few paragraphs from books is as knowledgeable as a breeder is laughable. The hours that go in to some of the above species is astronomical as anyone who has worked with them will know.
But I'm sure you know all of the procedures that go along with all the above species since they can legally be sold commercially in your state

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Are cats, fish, dogs etc protected? I don't think they are mate.
As long as they are not a LISTED noxious species or on CITES they are completely legal

I'm sorry, but Amazing Amazon are a specialist shop. They cannot even be compared because they have deliberately set themselves above regular pet shops in Victoria!
I believe we're talking about your run-of-the-mill petshops in this thread...of which would only sell basic and small amounts of reptiles (much like the ones in VIC....)

 

[Gonemad]

Don't shot me!
I feel this is a thread that we will all have to agree to disagree!
Lots of great threads for and against.
Nsw will get permission to sell whether we like it or not.
If all shops run their business like Amazing Amazon then there would be less arguments on the subjects.
I think breeders still have the upper hand due to selling prices to pet shops.

 

[mcbuggsy]

I have been out of the discussion loop regarding sale of reptiles in pet shops but it was discussed with NPWS at a Herp Society discussion a few (maybe even 4) years ago. PIJAC (Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council) have I believe been lobbying State Government for year over what they saw as restricting trade.They were allowed to sell all the equipment they wanted but no animals.And they also brought up the fact that you can buy from shops in other states etc. I think (not sure where decision is at at the moment) that NPWS was going to restrict trade to common, easy to keep animals (perhaps no frogs etc) and that only a few premises were going to be capable of being retailers.
I also heard a rumour that some reptiles will be able to be kept unlicensed as they did with some native birds many years ago (the 42 species rule) thanks Jeff Hardy.
It will be interesting I think but certainly not the end of the world for true enthusiastic herpos.
Unfortunately all these machinations have taken place behind closed doors after they sought advice from the AHS years ago. I think they didn't like the advice they received and are "doing it their way"......
Will be interesting to see what happens.......
(and then again I could be completely wrong ha ha ha)

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Also if the premises are of the quality of the likes of Amazing Amazon in Victoria then I think it would be a good thing. Maybe theres an opportunity for some of us to go into business...