Varanus tristis taxonomy & locales

[Pilbarensis]

Varanus tristis is currently a very confusing species in terms of taxonomy and work needs to be done to establish further clarity with this stunning and diverse species. The species has a remarkably large distribution and a range extending from the most northern point of Australia (Cape York), across central Australia and south-west to regions of Western Australia. They are an incredibly successful and adaptable species of varanid and inhabit an array of unique environments from tropical rainforests to arid rocky outcrops. All this has resulted in an incredible diversity in terms of size, colour, pattern and markings. To date so far little is known taxonomically-wise about this species and little research has been done to establish a greater understanding of this species' subspecies, potentially new subspecies and even new species.

At any rate that work is for a taxonomist. I'm just asking if anyone has any information/speculations on the subspecies/potential sp/ssp. Along with that I've been working on a list of locales, listed below is what I have so far. If anyone knows any other locales I'd appreciate it if you let me know, not much research has been done and it's primarily through herpers, photographers and fellow varanid keepers that I've managed to create the current list.

V. t. orientalis
Cape York (QLD)
Magnetic Island (QLD)
Darwin (NT)
Prosperine (QLD)
Brigalow Belt (QLD/NSW)
Ditmer (QLD)
Barakula State Forest (QLD)
Moorrinya NP (QLD)
Mt. Isa (QLD)
Eidsvold (QLD)
Culgoa NP (QLD/NSW)
Dajarra (QLD)
Barkly Downs (QLD)
Rosedale/Central Coastal QLD (QLD)
Central QLD (Exact locale not specified)(commonly referred to as 'reds')

Note: The extent of most of these animals ranges is not currently known.

V. t. tristis
Bourke (NSW)
Diamantina Lakes NP (QLD)
Mt. Isa (QLD)
Alice Springs (NT)
Theda Station/Kimberley (NT)
Kununurra/Kimberley (NT)
Umbrawarra Gorge (NT)
Kakadu NP (NT)
Soudan Station (NTO)
Halls Creek (WA)
Hamersley Ranges (WA)
Swan River (WA)
Port Hedland (WA)
Moore River (WA)
Southern WA (exact locale not specified)

Note: The extent of most of these animals ranges is not currently known.


If anyone has anything to add especially in regards to potentially more subspecies and definitely more locales would be very welcome. Also I've heard of a potentially new subspecies V. t. centralis, anyone care to elaborate on this?

Cheers guys & thanks
Scotty

 

[eipper]

What a mess..... Ok from what I have seen there are a number of undescribed small arboreal varanid taxa in Australia. There are apparently people both here and OS working on these animals. Preliminary data suggests the will be quite a few "new" species but where the divisions lie remain to be clarified.

As this is a very complex group it will take sometime to sort out properly and there certainly no sense in rushing it.

Interestingly I remember reading a paper on tristis phylogenetics but they did not sample Eidsvold (the type locality for orientalis).

cheers
Scott

 

[Stevo2]

Are there any basic identifiers for ANY of these locales, other than the word of the person you're getting them from or the location you see them in the wild? Quite curious as I'm moving into this area of herps shortly

 

[Pilbarensis]

@ eipper - Yeah, really looking forward to any information coming out. Would you be able to track down that paper for me by an chance?


@ Stevo2 - I've found that most if not all can be identified based on markings/colour changes. However due to limited data I can't say for sure. Where are you moving to I'm sure I can dig up some way for you to be able to identify the different locales in your area. Also these locales are based on animals that are 'different' from your average tristis.

 

[Chris]

I have a few V.T.Tristis that look like (colour & size) what I would call the 'usual' animal, see below:

However I picked this pair up below (who I think are both actually females) that were sold to me as V.T.Orientalis, they appear different to the 'usual' V.T.Orientalis but are smaller than the animal above, see below:

What do you think, are they V.T.Orientalis?

 

[Pilbarensis]

First one is definitely a V. t. tristis, thinking WA or central NT locale?
Second ones, reckon a V. t. orientalis locale from NT or even WA. More research needs to be done as I said, either way they're all very nice tristis.
Did you manage to breed any this season?

 

[Chris]

Thanks Scott. The first ones pictured I have 3 adult females of them, I was sold an identical male that unbeknown to me had a bacterial infection in his mouth, I spent a small fortune on injections & antibiotics with a vet but eventually had him euthanised, so no eggs this year. They were a Alice Springs locale. I have no idea on the locale of the second lot.

I'm on the hunt for a male now

 

[Pilbarensis]

Damn, that's a pity - real waste of an animal, you don't see many like those, most tristis these days are pretty average apart from the few 'unique' locales out there that I can't talk about. Let me know if you find a male for any of them, they're definitely some of the nicer looking tristis out there in terms of as you said 'usual' animals.

If any of you guys in WA and/or NT think you can get some WC animals from some of these locale let me know as most of these locales aren't in captivity and I reckon some work should be done to get a viable number of captive animals breeding for these locales. Never know, some of those locales may turn out to be a separate species or subspecies.

 

[Elapidae1]

I'd be interested in further elaboration on the Moore river, Swan river and S'west WA locales. I have never heard of them being distinct from each other in any way (Not to say they aren't). S west is a massive area. And does an area of the swan have a distinct variation to animals found 20, 30 + Kms in either direction of it?

Here's an typical example of a Tristis 60ks south of Perth.

 

[Pilbarensis]

I reckon a lot of the SW WA locales require a lot more research personally. The could potentially be a new species or subspecies IMO, as I said that's a job for taxonomists. In regards to Moore & Swan rivers animals they could all potentially be classed as 'South-Western WA' animals however until more research is done I make an effort to list every locale.

 

[Albino93]

I really like the V.t.tristis that have these markings/colours, im in the process of finding a breeder that has this form. I think the photo was taken in Broken Hill. Is this a typical patterned tristis tristis found in that area?



Im very sorry if im not aloud to use this photo but i couldnt find one anywhere else, i will remove it if im asked to.

 

[Pilbarensis]

Very similar to the V. t. tristis of the QLD/NT Border, particularly the Diamantina Lakes individuals, although your one has more black. At any rate I reckon this could be a potential locale, at any rate very stunning animal. You won't find many breeders with animals like that, just watch the forums though - a very similar locale will probably become available in late 2013-2014 with any luck although they are more pricey than the normal tristis, don't think I'm allowed to give any more info then that sorry!

 

[Albino93]

Yeah its gonna take a while to find someone who breeds that locale or even ones that are close to it, but ive got plenty of time. Are the Diamantina lakes locale easier to find? many breeders around that breed this locale form? do u have any pics of them? sorry about all the questions.
No worrys thanks heaps for the info uv'e given, i really appreciate it.

 

[Stevo2]

@ eipper - Yeah, really looking forward to any information coming out. Would you be able to track down that paper for me by an chance?


@ Stevo2 - I've found that most if not all can be identified based on markings/colour changes. However due to limited data I can't say for sure. Where are you moving to I'm sure I can dig up some way for you to be able to identify the different locales in your area. Also these locales are based on animals that are 'different' from your average tristis.

Thanks Scotty. Moving into as in getting me some of these little guys soon I'm also hoping to find some of the maggie island V.t.o in my travels!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Pilbarensis]

@ Albino - PM Sent.

@ Stevo - Haha. Stunning little orientalis those maggies. Where you heading btw? I'm assuming up north.

 

[Elapidae1]

I reckon a lot of the SW WA locales require a lot more research personally. The could potentially be a new species or subspecies IMO, as I said that's a job for taxonomists. In regards to Moore & Swan rivers animals they could all potentially be classed as 'South-Western WA' animals however until more research is done I make an effort to list every locale.

Yes there could potentially be new sp or app but when you use the term locale for Moore river, Swan river and S'west you exclude more or less every suburb in between and to the East,

 

[Pilbarensis]

Sorry but I'm not very familiar with the WA animals and not much information is available regarding them, not to mention I have very, very limited information regarding different locales in each suburb. If you have any information or want to add locales feel free man.

 

[Echiopsis]

Sorry but I'm not very familiar with the WA animals and not much information is available regarding them, not to mention I have very, very limited information regarding different locales in each suburb. If you have any information or want to add locales feel free man.

Are you suggesting the listed locales are distinct (be it morphologically or genetically) or is that purely a list of places you know tristis to occur? If the latter, you'd have to list most of the towns in WA. They're everywhere, from the remnant road side strips in the Wheatbelt to victrix and camaldulensis lined creeks in the Pilbara. Further north than that I have no experience. I haven't noticed any variation in the WA animals I've seen that I think justifies any kind of split, just variation over the range. That said, once the gel jockeys get hold of it who knows, morphological characters seem to mean less and less by the minute.

I haven't got many pics of the hundreds I've seen, they're not the most cooperative subjects.

 

[Pilbarensis]

Primarily I've listed locales that are distinct, as previously stated though I am not a very familiar with the WA animals I'm more familiar with the QLD locales. As you obviously are more familiar with them what name would you use to list the animals from the region?

 

[Echiopsis]

They're just tristis to me, darker in the south with bolder occeli in the north and east. I haven't seen any as heavily patterned as the eastern orientalis anywhere from the Pilbara south. Some of the nicest have been in the Hamersleys/ Chichesters and up around Hedland. The young in the Hamersleys at least are quite red dorsally rather than the typical black and white in the south.