The importance of interaction with your reptiles.

[cement]

Personally I think its important to not interact with your reptiles. Yes i own snakes and have done for a while including many different species and sub species. I also catch and relocate wild herps.
I have snakes that are handleable to the point I can take them to a primary school for a demo, and others that I would give to a baby to hold they are that quite. I have a full grown male bhp that is definatly not for the faint hearted. I have others that are in between. I am yet to see a snake that I can honestly say enjoys human company.
Even the ones I have that have never bitten, and are very quite still do not like being handled, though I can see why a person would think that they enjoy it. Snakes don't have the capacity to feel anything for their keeper. They are not dogs that like to run up and say hello.
Are the quite one I catch in the wild tame? They have never seen a human before, let alone been handled. Yet they handle just like my quite ones! Nevertheless, they still want to ultimately get away from me no matter how gently I handle them or how unlikely it is that they will bite.

 

[Gruni]

And yet Cement I have seen snakes that when the enclosure is opened promptly come out onto the keeper and make no effort to climb off the keeper even though they are quite capable of it. I have also seen several snakes that when held by a stranger if the keeper walks past they shift straight across to the keeper even if the keeper doesn't hold out their hand. I don't disagree with what you have said but I sometimes wonder if people underestimate a snakes mental/emotional ability.

 

[ubermensch]

Gruni, my girls come sit at the glass if I enter the room (and no one else), but I'm pretty sure what goes through their heads is "Hey, there's the lady that feeds me..."

 

[TheJoyces]

I agree with you Gruni - my Diamond (Onyx) will always come straight to me when I open his tank. He doesn't do that for any one else. Yet one of our Coastals (Monty) is clearly my Husband's friend. He never wants anything to really do with me, he will let me pick him up, but then it's like he "looks" around for my hubby and just goes straight to him.... So whether or not they have a memory, or know certain scents... they are awesome pets any which way you look at it. Either to have and to hold or to watch and admire, until death do we part so long as there is no mistreating involved do what you please with your snakes.....

 

[Snowman]

I've picked up wild carpet pythons before that were more relaxed than some captive. I wonder why this is?

 

[myusername]

When I first bought my snakes I thought that being able to interact with and handle them would be a big concern for me. In the years since I first began owning reptiles, though, my opinions have changed and as such I only ever handle them when I am cleaning their enclosures or OCCASIONALLY I will take them out onto the grass in front of my house to look around. I don't think they need or like constant handling.

Personally I like to be able to handle my snakes without fear of getting bitten. It would be annoying for me to have to screw around worrying about copping a bite etc and having to hook my animals when I need to move them for feeding or cleaning or whatever reason.

A few of my snakes were a little bitey when they were younger and I've certainly copped my fair share of bites, but I am glad now that I can grab any of mine at the moment without any fear of getting bitten. I think the ability of a snake to become tame is dependent on a combination of the age of the snake, the handling experience of the snake, and also the personality of the individual snake. Some snakes will just never tame, others are almost tame from the get go. Having said that, though, I would never fully trust any snake not to strike and I never put myself in a position where I could be injured, regardless of how unlikely it is that the snake will bite.

 

[Wing_Nut]

For me one of the real pleasures of owning snakes is putting the time in and seeing real rewards with regard to being able to handle them without getting bit. My question is would you keep non venomous snakes that you could not handle?. What for you would be the deciding factors (if any) that determined you looked at moving on a particular animal.


Kindest regards


Endeavour

I personally would not move on any pet, snake or otherwise because it doesn't do what I want. The decision to own a snake, or any pet for that matter is a long term decision that should be made in a informed manner from the beginning with a view that it will finish when the animal in question dies of a ripe old age. On a side note, I believe that taking on responsibility for a pet that is likely to outlive the owner without a contingency plan, i.e. a predetermined caretaker, is equally as bad. I think responsible pet ownership, informed decision making when pets are acquired, and commitment for the life of the animal should be held in the highest regard. In view of that I would certainly keep a snake that is difficult to handle.

Regards

Wing_Nut

 

[GeckPhotographer]

I have kept reptile species you never even see let alone touch. I find it just as rewarding.

 

[Endeavour]

I personally would not move on any pet, snake or otherwise because it doesn't do what I want. The decision to own a snake, or any pet for that matter is a long term decision that should be made in a informed manner from the beginning with a view that it will finish when the animal in question dies of a ripe old age. On a side note, I believe that taking on responsibility for a pet that is likely to outlive the owner without a contingency plan, i.e. a predetermined caretaker, is equally as bad. I think responsible pet ownership, informed decision making when pets are acquired, and commitment for the life of the animal should be held in the highest regard. In view of that I would certainly keep a snake that is difficult to handle.


Responsible pet ownership is as you say very important but the contingency plans you write of can sensibly be implemented only up to a certain level. Its one thing not to expand a collection beyond a manageable size given that your job or number of children might increase, but is it reasonable to be denied keeping reptiles (or any animal) on the premise that you might develop a life threatening illness for example or the predetermined caretaker you speak of has a sudden change of circumstances. Contingency plans in life can only realistically be taken so far otherwise we would do nothing.

For me it would not be moving an animal on because it was not doing "what I want" but moving an animal on because it might be the most pragmatic solution and in doing so give the animal a better life.

Kindest regards

Endeavour

 

[Gruni]

Endeavour, I think his point is a 75yr old buying a snake with a 20yr life expectancy as an example of the pet out living the owner, not unexpected catastrophe.

 

[cement]

And yet Cement I have seen snakes that when the enclosure is opened promptly come out onto the keeper and make no effort to climb off the keeper even though they are quite capable of it. I have also seen several snakes that when held by a stranger if the keeper walks past they shift straight across to the keeper even if the keeper doesn't hold out their hand. I don't disagree with what you have said but I sometimes wonder if people underestimate a snakes mental/emotional ability.

Yeah, look thats fine, and that is the age old response to these handling debates. So how many snakes have you seen do that behaviour, and is there another reasonable possible answer other then the one you want to hear?
Its always the same, you listen to first time snake pet owners with not much more experience then a handful of snakes, and they believe that their snakes like them. And like I said I can understand why they think like that. But talk to any long term keeper who has probably forgotten more then most here know, and the answer is different.
The wild scrubby I pulled out of a bag at my mates place at Mackay was a relocation. It was 10 ft long and placid. It stretched out to my son on numerous occasions while I was holding it, but why?? Did it like him? Was it trying to get on to the closest object in an effort to move away from its current position?
Humans like to be liked. Even seemingly.

 

[SarahScales]

Well when I got my jungle she was psychotic... Like absolutely nuts. She would throw herself at the plastic tub to try and maul me through the plastic. She was extremely cage defensive and would get into striking position every time I walked past her....

Now she is absolutely my little darling. I handle her every day and she seems to enjoy the time out. She seems to associate my hands with being out of her tank and being able to explore, so I never get bitten. My partner however (Who used to terrorise her by tapping her tank and laughing at her striking) so much as takes a step towards me when I'm holding her... Well... If he values his face, he just wont.

I think interacting makes them more balanced and calmer animals, humans and handling isn't scary and more of a good time.

 

[Gruni]

Like I said, I don't dispute what you are saying as a whole. My point was simply that 'I' have to wonder when you watch the behaviours I mentioned particularly when the snake only seems to react that way for the keeper. I think it is all to easy to under estimate some animals and to say that they don't bond with their keepers at all. A big example of this is the guy in South America who rescued a wounded crocodile and had some extraordinary experiences with that croc that no one else would have been able to do. Man And Crocodile, Chito And Pocho, Play And Swim Together Like Best Friends (VIDEO)

I am not saying that this bonding is true of all snakes/reptiles and I accept that many do just tolerate their experience but it is food for thought that snakes may 'feel' more than we often give them credit for.

 

[cement]

I am not saying that this bonding is true of all snakes/reptiles and I accept that many do just tolerate their experience but it is food for thought that snakes may 'feel' more than we often give them credit for.

I don't think so Gruni. Anyone here who has a mellow snake that is relaxed is obviously supplying the animal with adequate husbandry. There is nothing better then seeing a relaxed snake. It speaks volumes about the keeper.
Also, there is no doubt as to the snakes ability to smell and recognise different smells, and there are multiple other aspects of their physiology that we give them ample credit for. No matter how hard we try, or what we believe regarding their capacity to love humans, they are an animal that has been evolving for millions of years without humans.....Surely, it would be feasible to think that if any animal was capable to like us it would be apes? But what happens when pet chimps reach sexual maturity?

Science shows us that snakes brains have certain capacities. This is the clincher in the discussion, it ties in with the popular beliefs of snake behaviour amongst long term snake people.

 

[TheJoyces]

The wild scrubby I pulled out of a bag at my mates place at Mackay was a relocation. It was 10 ft long and placid. It stretched out to my son on numerous occasions while I was holding it, but why?? Did it like him? Was it trying to get on to the closest object in an effort to move away from its current position?
Humans like to be liked. Even seemingly.

Cement, I have to do relocations, especially for where I work, and I have to relocate venomous snakes as well. Some Browns I come up against don't even move while other sit up as high as they can. The fact that your scrubby was really placid, is usually what most pythons get like as they get older and bigger, them seem to become more docile. For whatever reason. Whether wild or tame the point is some snakes will either enjoy the company (or tolerate) the company of humans and others won't. I still think it has a lot to do with the time spent with the animal. I don't think it's got anything to do with Humans liking to be liked, I couldn't give a rats you know what if I was liked. I'm content with myself and who I am as a whole. What you are doing is generalising. You can't seem to just accept the fact that some snakes are people snakes and some aren't. Regardless of what science may show us about their brains, keep in mind, that science can sometimes be wrong and that all things in life are experimental. Sometimes the outcome of the same experiment can give different results. The same person can look at the same situation and both have a different perception of what happened. I think it's best to just agree to disagree.

 

[Wing_Nut]

I agree that the best laid plans can unravel, and we cannot plan for things that are outside of the scope of reasonable. I certainly would not advocate limiting your life because something might happen. I don't disagree with a well evaluated approach to providing a better life for any animal, however I have seen time and time again animals 'moved on' because owners expected the animal to be something different. All situations are different, and the circumstances behind each decision individual, my response was a personal answer that applies to me. I am happy to see any outcome that has the best care for the animal at heart.

 

[Endeavour]

I agree that the best laid plans can unravel, and we cannot plan for things that are outside of the scope of reasonable. I certainly would not advocate limiting your life because something might happen. I don't disagree with a well evaluated approach to providing a better life for any animal, however I have seen time and time again animals 'moved on' because owners expected the animal to be something different. All situations are different, and the circumstances behind each decision individual, my response was a personal answer that applies to me. I am happy to see any outcome that has the best care for the animal at heart.

Totally agree there.


Kindest regards

Endeavour

 

[cement]

Cement, I have to do relocations, especially for where I work, and I have to relocate venomous snakes as well. Some Browns I come up against don't even move while other sit up as high as they can. The fact that your scrubby was really placid, is usually what most pythons get like as they get older and bigger, them seem to become more docile. For whatever reason. Whether wild or tame the point is some snakes will either enjoy the company (or tolerate) the company of humans and others won't. I still think it has a lot to do with the time spent with the animal. I don't think it's got anything to do with Humans liking to be liked, I couldn't give a rats you know what if I was liked. I'm content with myself and who I am as a whole. What you are doing is generalising. You can't seem to just accept the fact that some snakes are people snakes and some aren't. Regardless of what science may show us about their brains, keep in mind, that science can sometimes be wrong and that all things in life are experimental. Sometimes the outcome of the same experiment can give different results. The same person can look at the same situation and both have a different perception of what happened. I think it's best to just agree to disagree.

Interesting that you catch browns that don't even move. Am I supposed to believe that?
A 3m scrubby is by no means an old python.

There is a very limited amount of "personality " a snake can have. It is found in both wild and captive specimens. Humans have nothing to do with it!

 

[PythonLegs]

Some people have snakes that are their friends. Some people dress their poodles up in little dresses. And some people are bonkers. Or maybe they are all the same people.

 

[reb01]

I don't think so Gruni. Anyone here who has a mellow snake that is relaxed is obviously supplying the animal with adequate husbandry. There is nothing better then seeing a relaxed snake. It speaks volumes about the keeper.
So considering ive got a pair of NASTY Jungles that will be put Satan in his bed,my husbandy is incorrect....Ive had my fair share of biters and do eventually calm down..however this pair seem to get worse,so tell me what im doing wrong..Im a expert ive keeped reptiles now for 5 days...Seriuosly ive owned reptiles now for 16 odd years and your saying because this pair are not relaxed..im obviously not supplying them with adequate husbandry...Just to clean there enclosures is a mission,by the way no other snakes i have here are like this..