Say yes to the Jag

[RedFox]

I suppose my main issue with jags is that only half the cltch actually has the jag gene and the other half are completely undesirable. I don't know any other animal we breed that involves such a waste of life, as let's face it a lot of sibs have very short lives. Then there are the potential for neuro issues as well as the fact the original jags were smuggled animals.

As for the original post sure some are quite attractive but personally I would choose just a nice jungle over a jag any day. There is a reason why people overseas are jealous of our pythons.

 

[Variety]

If you take the time to read over my posts, I have clearly stated they are a beautiful creature. I have also clearly stated, that however athestically pleasing an animal may be, I however don't condone pratices of genetic manipulation and poor animal welfare. I have also not once stated in any of my calm and collective rebuttals that all "jag breeders" do this. I meerly stated that this particular one in question appeared to keep his "stock" poorly, and for that I dislike, especially the way he spoke about the one with clear neural deficiencies. We are all entitled to form our own opinion and I don't judge any one for what they deem to be acceptable practices or not. All I have stood by is that I would clearly not support an industry where CLEAR representations of genetic malfunctions is present. If you have no qualm with them, than that's your cross to bare. But labelling someone a vegan for not wanting to take part is a bit to critical and a long way off the point. I'm not a vegan. I just don't particularly like what I saw. Nothing more than that.

The husbandry remark wasn't towards you, it was to someone who assumed that jag owners who supposedly have no care for animal welfare keep their herps in poor conditions. Nobody is defending how the person in the video kept his pythons or how he spoke about the obvious nuero. What a mess .. haha

I dont think what they do is right (my moral opinion) but i do feel as if they know what they are getting into and that is their choice, that's the only reason im defending them. We are in this hobby for different reasons and our passion makes for very heated moment behind the keys of a message board.

I don't think just because this is a forum we can't fence sit and let people do their own thing. Its either one extreme or another.. If you had a neighbor that bread jags would you be constantly over there telling him that its wrong and theres no place for it, even though you have heard 10+ people say it to him that same day ?

just something to think about

 

[KaotikJezta]

Why vegan though? Drinking milk and eating eggs doesn't hurt chickens, cows, goats etc. chickens lay eggs naturally :facepalm: cows produce milk.

Have you ever seen a battery hen shed or a huge commercial dairy or piggery. It would churn your stomach. If you don't like how those snakes are kept, you wouldn't want to see how battery hens and pigs are kept. No, I am not vego or vegan but refuse to eat commercially produced cage eggs, pig or large dairy branded milk.

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I suppose my main issue with jags is that only half the cltch actually has the jag gene and the other half are completely undesirable. I don't know any other animal we breed that involves such a waste of life, as let's face it a lot of sibs have very short lives. Then there are the potential for neuro issues as well as the fact the original jags were smuggled animals.

As for the original post sure some are quite attractive but personally I would choose just a nice jungle over a jag any day. There is a reason why people overseas are jealous of our pythons.

Yes, so far one person has posted that they have sibs.

 

[TheJoyces]

The husbandry remark wasn't towards you, it was to someone who assumed that jag owners who supposedly have no care for animal welfare keep their herps in poor conditions. Nobody is defending how the person in the video kept his pythons or how he spoke about the obvious nuero. What a mess .. haha

I dont think what they do is right (my moral opinion) but i do feel as if they know what they are getting into and that is their choice, that's the only reason im defending them. We are in this hobby for different reasons and our passion makes for very heated moment behind the keys of a message board.

I don't think just because this is a forum we can't fence sit and let people do their own thing. Its either one extreme or another.. If you had a neighbor that bread jags would you be constantly over there telling him that its wrong and theres no place for it, even though you have heard 10+ people say it to him that same day ?

just something to think about

There's a good reason why I don't talk to my neighbours. Mainly becuase their business is their own and my business is my own. I didn't say he was doing it wrong, I said I disagreed with it. He also placed it on youtube, in order for the world to view and cast their opinion. I have said the whole time it's only my opinion. He can do what he wants. I don't support it. Simple as that.

 

[MonitorMayhem]

This topic (jags) is getting very boring

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This topic (jags) is getting very boring

 

[Hamalicious]

^^ +1

I agree but going vego isnt the answer, we need to find better ways to get meat, not give up an essential part of our diet all together.

 

[richoman_3]

Thankyou hamalicious I couldn't think of a better way to put it and someone who fully thinks the exact same way I feel. We can never be satisfied and I think it's truly horrible that we neglect snakes like this and breed them for the beauty despite the snake having neuro. They don't care. They want beauty and if they have to mess up the pure lines and bring neuro into the snakes then so be it. It's quite sick actually.
snakes are living and don't deserve to be treated like experiments and money makers. IMO they deserve more than most of us as they're not the ones doing stupid things to other living things.

well said!

jags make me sick! .. The morph crossbreeding and that hobby is gross .. people need to appreciate the amazing wildlife we have here.

besides yes a jag may have been a natural occurrence, but it happened overseas in a coastal. Not a single jag in Australia can be proven to be one of those pure coastal jags

 

[Red-Ink]

Ahhh JAGS... saying JAGs on APS is like dropping the C bomb in the play ground.

 

[GeckoJosh]

This thread has somehow gone from a discussion about tub sizes and JAgs to an argument about meat consumer and vegans............ :shock:

 

[Red-Ink]

Haha this is getting tiresome and points are been missed. Anyway moving on, is there any general health issues known with carpondros? Mainly from the humidity of the tree python x?

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Well said TheJoyces! Sums it up well.

No known health issues with carpondros... legal issues, well that's a whole other topic altogether.

 

[KaotikJezta]

This is very true and if u compare Chickens and pigs to the conditions that snake breeders keep theres in then i have to disagree...yes the snakes dont have the greatest lives but they r clean and well fed ...and as for most people that breed and cull rodents then where do all of u stand????? exactly........this is rediculous the way people r debating the jags and video...there here to stay whether u like it or not...its personal preference and people should mind there own bussiness.....Jag threads should be kept at low key or if u dont like jags then stick to the threads of the species u keep.....JMO.......and i dont presently own a jag by the way but i wont say i never will as im doing my homework instead of jumping on the band wagon.........
Ta
Pete.........Ps Battery Hens lack feathers ...do his snakes lack scales...his snakes look very Healthy:|

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I think you misunderstood, I meant his snakes are kept in fantastic conditions comparatively

 

[Bananapeel]

Can we please make clear that we (well I) don't hate jags! They are a beautiful snake. However! I hate the cruelty they are given. The breeders know they have neuro. But they still breed them not giving a hoot about the poor snakes life ahead. It is not the snake I have a problem with it is the inhumane way they are used despite having a health issue. And I give up on the vegan/vegatarian debate. I have stated I don't eat animal produce that has been farmed incorrectly as I don't believe in Cruelty to animals. If you want me to give up meat entirely I'm afraid I won't because my mum refuses to cook separate meals

 

[Darlyn]

Its only in the past 70 or so years that meat has came to be a viable food product for us whether it be the price or availability, Even then our teeth limit us to cut up cooked meat. Dos'nt seem so far fetched to me

Ha ha ha .... 70 years.....the cavemen ate meat!

 

[Hamalicious]

Its only in the past 70 or so years that meat has came to be a viable food product for us whether it be the price or availability, Even then our teeth limit us to cut up cooked meat. Dos'nt seem so far fetched to me

You need to go back a lot longer than 70 years to decide how we evolved. Humans have invented so many things to make our life easier that we have become useless at surviving. Both our teeth and jaw muscles are considerably weaker than they used to be because we have made our food softer and easier to eat, therefore our bodies have adapted to this. Unfortunately humans have evolved to a bad place where we are almost completely disconnected from nature. Regardless of this, there is still more than enough substantial evidence to confirm that we are omnivorous and not herbivorous

 

[Burnerism]

Thanks for the carpondros info! When are as going to start seeing these come up for sale on a market level! Imo they look just as good and even better then jags!!! Come on I'm sure people will be able to make a good $ out of them for a while!

 

[Red-Ink]

Thanks for the carpondros info! When are as going to start seeing these come up for sale on a market level! Imo they look just as good and even better then jags!!! Come on I'm sure people will be able to make a good $ out of them for a while!

Start it mate advertise them on here and see if there's a market for it...

 

[SteveNT]

Its only in the past 70 or so years that meat has came to be a viable food product for us whether it be the price or availability, Even then our teeth limit us to cut up cooked meat. Dos'nt seem so far fetched to me

That's just rediculous. My teeth work really well on raw meat when necessary. Our dentition going back through millions of years of ancestry is clearly designed for an OMNIVEROUS diet.

I like jags but I dont want one.

 

[TheJoyces]

Pfft we came from aliens any way, and we lived on the brains of flowers and elderberry wub wub bushes from the land of Zarl

 

[Red-Ink]

Pfft we came from aliens any way, and we lived on the brains of flowers and elderberry wub wub bushes from the land of Zarl

A Scientologist I see....

 

[RedFox]

You can't compare us to predators such as wolves and bears that just doesn't make sense. We used to have larger canines to eat raw meat. We then designed primaitve tools to kill and then break up meat. Then we learnt how to easily make fire. We cooked our meat. Our large canines were no longer necessary. After thounds of years, we have the teeth we have today and knives and forks. Isn't evolution amazing.