Rainforest/hinterland diamonds.

[Hamalicious]

So i have noticed a lot of people lately trying to sell intergrades as rainforest diamonds, hinterland diamonds or hinterland carpets.

Is this a new trend people are using to try and flog intergrades or is this an old trick i haven't noticed until now?

An intergrade is an intergrade, i don't see why people are trying to give them a fancy name.

 

[RedFox]

"Rainforest diamonds" have been around for a long time but they seem to be becoming more common whereas the word "Intergrade" is becoming less common . Defitely a sale phrase. It sounds better then saying intergrade and makes it sound like a pure diamond, albeit one that lives in a rainforest in NSW . Lol. Hmmm didn't realise there was so much rainforest in NSW.

The word intergrade has a bad connotation. A lot of people think that intergrades are the same as hybrids, but then how can you blame them when coastal x diamonds hybrids were labelled as intergrades.

 

[Norm]

I agree its confusing for buyers, especially newbies. I brought this up a while ago, about the name intergrade being not a great name because people think they're hybrids. I tried suggesting another name but its difficult to come up with one that works. Personally I like the name "northern diamond". But we have to remember in the end they are intergrades and not some newly discovered carpet.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Intergrade means the cross breeding has happened naturally.
Cross breed is the man made version of an intergrade.

Intergrade is now being used to disguise cross bred animals.
Rainforest is the Diamond intergrade of a cross breed

 

[Hamalicious]

I just think that they are not a species and therefore, should not have their own name. They are a cross between two different species, so we should just call them diamond x coastals. People know that it is a naturally occurring, it's not a bad thing.

 

[Vixen]

It's hard when breeders are flogging off captive bred Diamonds x Coastals as Intergrades though - they shouldn't be using the term at all.

I really don't have a problem with the term Northern Rainforest Diamond, as labelling something as Intergrade does get a negative view as most people still think they are captive bred crosses when they're NOT.

 

[borntobnude]

Have a look at the pics i have put on the "gosford locale "thread and its easy to see why we are confussed ,

 

[junglepython2]

I just think that they are not a species and therefore, should not have their own name. They are a cross between two different species, so we should just call them diamond x coastals. People know that it is a naturally occurring, it's not a bad thing.

They aren't a cross they are just as pure as a diamond or coastal. Maybe people should go back to the old locale names.

 

[Hamalicious]

They aren't a cross they are just as pure as a diamond or coastal. Maybe people should go back to the old locale names.

How are they not a cross? and how are they as pure as a coastal or a diamond, they are literally a cross between those two species.

 

[junglepython2]

How are they not a cross? and how are they as pure as a coastal or a diamond, they are literally a cross between those two species.

They are not a cross at all. There parents are not a diamond and a coastal but instead two pure intergrades. There is a population of carpets pretty much right down the east coast. Intergrades just happen to lie in an area where so called "coastals" start to turn into so called "diamonds". These are just labels us humans have given to two points of the population which is pretty much a continuum. Each point or locale is just as pure as any other and no crossing is occurring just a gradual change to suit the differing habitats and temperatures.

 

[RedFox]

Diamonds and coastals don't live in the intergrade zone. If they were just cross breeds surely there would be a mix of diamonds, coastals and intergrades living in that area.

Morelia spilota are genetically the same hence why they appear as such on most states species lists. So from what I have read the more accepted theory is that diamond gradually evolve into coastals as you go further north. This change isn't clear cut hense why you have intergrades who display both diamond and coastal features.

They are pure animals but because they don't fit into our cookie cutter idea of species they are undesirable.

 

[Hamalicious]

So a new species has been created and inhabited an area?

 

[junglepython2]

So a new species has been created and inhabited an area?

Not a new species, just where one form changes into another. Technically diamonds and coastals are the same species anyway, Morelia spilota. The idea of species is very ridged, nature doesn't fit into the neat little boxes we make up to help us make sense of it all.

 

[RedFox]

Jungle python is right. We have imposed these subspecies title. Since genetically Morelia spilota are indistinguishable technically it would be more correct calling them all carpet pythons from such and such locality. But then how confusing would that be.

Recently I read an article about Cape York carpets possibly being natural intergrades between coastals, jungles and Darwins.

 

[KaotikJezta]

There are some rather uneducated posts on this thread. Firstly, there is rainforest all the way down the coast of NSW, secondly, they are not crosses they are localitys, and thirdly, the breeder selling said snakes is very respected and certainly doesn't need a sales pitch to sell animals.

 

[Cougar2007]

They are not a cross at all. There parents are not a diamond and a coastal but instead two pure intergrades. There is a population of carpets pretty much right down the east coast. Intergrades just happen to lie in an area where so called "coastals" start to turn into so called "diamonds". These are just labels us humans have given to two points of the population which is pretty much a continuum. Each point or locale is just as pure as any other and no crossing is occurring just a gradual change to suit the differing habitats and temperatures.

So based on the above I can cross my coastal and diamond, it is then a het for pure rainforest diamond intergrades? Man I could charge thousands for those hatchies. What a marketing spin that one could be in a pet shop.

*jokes*

On a serious note though, I was lead to believe it was a documented fact the an "intergrade" was started by a coastal and diamond breeding together. So the fact that the young now breed to give "pure intergrades" is a moot point. I'm not being smart, just wondering why the aren't a cross when thy started as a cross.

 

[Norm]

If there's rainforest all the way down the NSW coast, and I'm not debating this, how can a Rainforest Diamond be a locality? Just putting it out there

 

[-Peter]

The Worley's gave nice names to their locality Morelia spilota ssps. Whether it was a cynical attempt to charge more or an attempt to create a difinitive way of establishing genuine localities is up to you to decide. I like to think the best of people in the long run.

 

[dangles]

So based on the above I can cross my coastal and diamond, it is then a het for pure rainforest diamond intergrades? Man I could charge thousands for those hatchies. What a marketing spin that one could be in a pet shop.

*jokes*

On a serious note though, I was lead to believe it was a documented fact the an "intergrade" was started by a coastal and diamond breeding together. So the fact that the young now breed to give "pure intergrades" is a moot point. I'm not being smart, just wondering why the aren't a cross when thy started as a cross.

Considering snakes were around before us, hardly could be documented. There was a dna study done on morelia that was posted on this site. Results were 3 or 4 diff dna strains from all morelia. Carinata and viridis being 2 of the different strains

If we just called all east coast pythons morelia spilota spilota or mcdowelli would that be better???

 

[Ramsayi]

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/faq-intergrade-54862/