Rainforest/hinterland diamonds.

[junglepython2]

So based on the above I can cross my coastal and diamond, it is then a het for pure rainforest diamond intergrades? Man I could charge thousands for those hatchies. What a marketing spin that one could be in a pet shop.

*jokes*

On a serious note though, I was lead to believe it was a documented fact the an "intergrade" was started by a coastal and diamond breeding together. So the fact that the young now breed to give "pure intergrades" is a moot point. I'm not being smart, just wondering why the aren't a cross when thy started as a cross.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

[thomasssss]

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/faq-intergrade-54862/

i was just about to post that some people in this thread (including the poster ) should have a good read of this then re think what they believe to be an intergrade , as it says in the link , no where does one subspecies ( i.e. jungles ,coastal ,diamonds etc ) just magically turn into the next, there is always a subtle change

 

[dangles]

i was just about to post that some people in this thread (including the poster ) should have a good read of this then re think what they believe to be an intergrade , as it says in the link , no where does one subspecies ( i.e. jungles ,coastal ,diamonds etc ) just magically turn into the next, there is always a subtle change

Agreed

Different geographical and environmental conditions produce different appearances of the same species. Look at people

 

[Bart70]

There are some rather uneducated posts on this thread. Firstly, there is rainforest all the way down the coast of NSW, secondly, they are not crosses they are localitys, and thirdly, the breeder selling said snakes is very respected and certainly doesn't need a sales pitch to sell animals.

Agreed - A locale that has developed naturally over thousands of years, in the biological and ecological world, is not called a 'cross bred'. These intergrades are a naturally occurring locale in this area in the wild - No Coastals and Diamonds running around the bush producing them.

I recall a series of posts many years ago on another forum where a group of breeders who were dedicated to breeding this particular locale discussed the bad name that 'intergrade' was getting because of people who believed that 'intergrade = cross bred". From what I have read about the thread, that was the birth of the North Rainforest Diamond name. They are still often referred to as Port Mac Pythons.

Whatever you call them - they are a naturally occurring locale as many who live in the area will attest to. Their pattern does vary within the locale from what I have seen, but they are quite distinctive from a traditional Diamond, or a Coastal.

I do agree there are breeders who take a little poetic licence with them and am sure there are breeders who cross the two deliberately and try to pass them off as the locale. When I bought mine I viewed both parents so I knew what it was.

There is some lovely rainforest down the coast (not as much as there once was sadly). In fact I spoke with a Ranger recently who got tagged recently by a large Rainforest Diamond/Port Mac Diamond/Intergrade in our local Sea Acres Rainforest here in Port Macquarie - a fine example of a preserved rainforest that visitors can walk through on a large boardwalk.

 

[Bart70]

The Worley's gave nice names to their locality Morelia spilota ssps. Whether it was a cynical attempt to charge more or an attempt to create a difinitive way of establishing genuine localities is up to you to decide. I like to think the best of people in the long run.

I have seen reference to the name being discussed on the net quite some time ago - not sure how long the Worleys have been breeding them but from what I have read it was not started by them.

Happy to be proven wrong though

 

[Bart70]

Jungle python is right. We have imposed these subspecies title. Since genetically Morelia spilota are indistinguishable technically it would be more correct calling them all carpet pythons from such and such locality. But then how confusing would that be.

Recently I read an article about Cape York carpets possibly being natural intergrades between coastals, jungles and Darwins.

Oh No! Don't tell me my new Cape York Hatchy is a cross bred too??......LOL :lol:

With my Rainforest, I now have 2 cross bred snakes! :lol:

 

[Norm]

The confusion among people in regards to intergrades isn't helped when in "The Complete Carpet Python" the authors describe a crossed snake as being an intergrade. Page 238, describes an "88% diamond 12% jungle carpet intergrade". Yet they also explain quite well exactly what an intergrade is. Leaves me scratching my head.

 

[-Peter]

I have seen reference to the name being discussed on the net quite some time ago - not sure how long the Worleys have been breeding them but from what I have read it was not started by them.

Happy to be proven wrong though

Are you referringf to Northern Rainforst Diamond, if so you are talking about how many years ago, would need to be at least four or five.

 

[RedFox]

Oh No! Don't tell me my new Cape York Hatchy is a cross bred too??......LOL :lol:

With my Rainforest, I now have 2 cross bred snakes! :lol:

No you would have two locale specific animals. Lol Intergrades aren't cross breeds.

 

[Bart70]

Are you referringf to Northern Rainforst Diamond, if so you are talking about how many years ago, would need to be at least four or five.

From memory the conversations I saw were 2006 and were between a small number of breeders who were Port Mac python enthusiasts.

 

[Bart70]

No you would have two locale specific animals. Lol Intergrades aren't cross breeds.

Haha....Yes - I did make that comment very 'tongue in cheek'....LOL

 

[-Peter]

From memory the conversations I saw were 2006 and were between a small number of breeders who were Port Mac python enthusiasts.

That would explain it.

 

[Reptilia]

within a small range of northern NSW you can get...

diamond x diamond
coastal x coastal
integrade x integrade
diamond x integrade
diamond x coastal
integrade x coastal
or any percentage combination of all 3...

someone called it the 'morelia mess' a few years back.

 

[KaotikJezta]

I used to live on a headland in the bush at Urunga, just up from Nambucca Heads, and even there you get some very interesting pythons that you can't quite put your finger on the ID of.

 

[Bart70]

I used to live on a headland in the bush at Urunga, just up from Nambucca Heads, and even there you get some very interesting pythons that you can't quite put your finger on the ID of.

If they were not obvious Diamond, or obvious Coastal, and had Morelia appearance, there is a great chance they are locally occurring intergrades or locales.

I don't believe that Coastals or Diamonds are a common find in heart of the intergrade zone from what field herpers around here have told me. I have not seen any either. Everything I see around here is clearly intergrade, or the Port Macquarie locale.

 

[KaotikJezta]

Theoretically, Urunga is out of the intergrade zone and in straight coastal territory

 

[Jacknife]

This argument is kinda like saying "If I take half a pear and half an apple, and glue them together; I have a nashi right?"
The nashi is a fruit in it's own right.

 

[Shotta]

^ lol i thought nashi was the type of pear or something ,
wouldn't a pear cross apple be a peple? or peapple

 

[KaotikJezta]

A nashi is a pear, an intergrade is an intergrade

 

[Bart70]

Theoretically, Urunga is out of the intergrade zone and in straight coastal territory

Don't know what the Intergrades look like that far north (...and was always of the belief that the intergrade zone extended to Coffs Harbour, maybe not). The ones I have seen wild around Port Macquarie are quite distinctive from a Coastal or a Diamond - you would not have a lot of trouble identifying them.