Cats: loveable pets or natural born killers. ERADICAT Tonight on SBS 8.30

[Mighty_Moose]

often do not display these traits

Does this mean that some do display these traits? Now that would lead me to believe that it is still there regardless of them lacking the 'interactions' with their siblings/parent. I agree that it is a fine line and that a certain level is from playing with their siblings sure, but why would they want to play with their siblings if it wasn't in their nature to do so in the first place, or at least have a degree of curiosity to so. If you grabbed a kitten day one eyes open, and dangled a bit of string and bounce it up and down in front of them i'd like to know what happens over a period of time, would the cat never touch it, or eventually would it react to it and do what cats do?

I do believe strongly that cats impact on the environment is extreme.

That I do agree with you on.

P.s By no means do I claim i'm an expert on this topic just curious.

 

[Wing_Nut]

These are all very good points and can often be difficult to differentiate between. In using the term often I am making allowances for the variation of nature. There are never hard and fast rules that apply to animals however there are trends and there are exceptions to these.

Instinct does play a part in the prey drive of a cat, it is a inbuilt natural mechanism that facilitates a development of hunting techniques. Hunting is developed from a young age and takes time to master. This behaviour is evident in the time kittens spend with there mother after they are weaned and proficient hunters. The means by which they kill is therefore a learnt behaviour.

Your example would eventually result in a prey drive response, however a kitten taught in this way is generally a very inefficient hunter. If cats were natural born killers, they would not require a continued maternal influence after being weaned. They need to learn to kill.

Regards

Wing_Nut

 

[Mighty_Moose]

Your example would eventually result in a prey drive response, however a kitten taught in this way is generally a very inefficient hunter.

But this still makes me believe regardless of being 'efficient' at killing or not, that they are indeed born with the instincts/skills to kill, hence my belief that indeed they are natural born killers. If a cat was to be taken away day one and never 'taught' to hunt and was kept at a home, over time wouldn't it naturally learn itself,through say curiosity or "instinct" which it was born with? It's not like it won't get fed if it doesn't catch anything and therefore die, it still has a home to come back to (generally speaking) and even without it they would manage to scavenge. So regardless of having been taught by its siblings or parent, do you think that a cat brought up like this will never be able to kill if it did eventually roam?

 

[Wing_Nut]

I can only answer that with animals I have had a direct contact with. I have two cats that live here, neither has ever shown a hunting instinct. They have no prey drive and often show signs of being unnerved or afraid of what I would consider a prey item. Their physiology certainly gives them the weapons to kill a prey item, they have not in the ten and twelve years of their lives. I believe they would not survive if they had to rely on hunting alone.

I have seen many other examples of this and I believe responsible ownership can in fact prevent a cat from ever hunting. Just like a cat can learn to kill, it can also not be taught to kill. If there were far fewer pets that did not hunt prey I would certainly be swayed to a different view, however seven out of ten pet cats do not routinely kill prey items and this leads me to my conclusion.

Regards

Wing_Nut

On a side note, these are not my cats. I don't have any really personal like for cats. I learn about them because for many years, they were simply the enemy and a menace to my bird collection.

 

[Darlyn]

Umbral listens to Triple J

 

[Mighty_Moose]

I believe they would not survive if they had to rely on hunting alone. If there were far fewer pets that did not hunt prey I would certainly be swayed to a different view, however seven out of ten pet cats do not routinely kill prey items and this leads me to my conclusion.

The thing is, most domestic cats don't rely on hunting for a food source alone. But they are naturally inquisitive and in my opinion natural killers regardless of if they set out to do so or not.

I also find it hard to define 'Natural born killers'. Is it something that's only purpose in life is to kill and does nothing but kill, or something that without any guidance will or has the potential to kill.

Ah well, at least we can agree they're destructive regardless of being natural born killers or not.

 

[Wing_Nut]

I will agree with that. I think the answer, like most things in nature, will be somewhere in the middle. Objective information on this subject is very difficult to find as all sides of the discussion are very passionate.

I appreciate hearing your point of view.

Kind regards

Wing_Nut

 

[Bluetongue1]

“Natural born killers” is a term that applies to any animal that is carnivorous or omnivorous. A couple of examples are Bearded Dragons and Shinglebacks. If you are looking for a total carnivore then something like a Black-headed Python or a Fox would fit the bill. The point to make here is that the caption “born killers” is highly suggestive and does not adequately address the instinctive behaviour of different species under wild versus the range of captive conditions. The other point to bear in mind is that animal behaviour is not solely instinctive in higher vertebrates. Learned behaviour plays a significant role. So what might be inherently programmed behaviour in an animal can be over-ridden by external environmental experiences.

A comment about cats bringing back live or dead mice/rats… It is fairly standard behaviour for female cats that have young to do this. It is not unreasonable to interpret this behaviour as a demonstration to the young of what is suitable prey and how to attack it. Cats that do not have young will often do the same thing. This is their way of saying “Look what I have done to clean up our home”. A congratulatory message would be appropriate before disposing of the carcass. The important point to take on board here is that cats do simply play with potential prey. They do what they do with a pupose.

Control of cat behaviour has already been discussed at length so I do not intend to go there. As an owner of cat or dog you have considerable control over the behaviour of your pet. How you decide to exercise this power may be responsible or irresponsible… up to you. Please give plenty of thought to all decisions before you make them and try and take into account the possible outcomes, often not spelt out, before deciding and acting!

Inherit behavioural traits for survival come to the fore when unwanted litters are dumped in bushland areas. The fact that many such dumped kittens survive and go on to reproduce is indicative of their natural inherited traits as an adaptable predator. Use what ever name you wish to describe their position in the ecological web of life, the reality is that they are high up in the interactions of the ecological web and the outcome are the same irrespective of almost whatever part of Australia.

Blue

 

[longqi]

An american study of feral cats a few years ago proved that wild cats are relentless hunters
they averaged about 52 kills per day
killed everything smaller than themselves with most just for fun
only a few of these kills were consumed

if you want to see how bad they really are simply cat proof a large area
i cat proofed a few acres in nelson bay years ago

within 6 months the whole area was swarming with wildlife
within 2 years it was like the garden of eden

after i moved on new owners let the fences drop
now its virtually devoid of life again
and the abundant native wildlife was one of their man reasons for buying the property????

to see a classic example of their destructiveness check out macquarie island
cats and rabbits were introduced years ago
cats killed off most of the native birds
then controlled the rabbit population
so they removed the cats
rabbit population exploded

house cats are fine
hunting cats are a menace

 

[joelysmoley]

I believe that cats are natural born hunters,
They have been domesticated for thousands of years and yet they have their natural killing instincts. My cat has so much of a killing instinct opens the doors, if they are unlocked. So we have to keep them locked from the afternoon till the morning.
Feral cats are one of Australia's biggest problem of killing native fauna. Studies show that these feral cats kill around 5 animals a day and there are about 12 million feral cats in australia. So that averages to about 60 million native animals killed each day.
If we could eliminate feral cats (humanely) all together and keep our cats inside then our wildlife would thrive.
We are the country with the most native extinctions and these cats are one cause to it.

 

[Boyds.boy77]

Its a fine line this one, cats go hunting at night time looking for prey, dogs hunts to but they are locked in there backyard and are in a controlled enviroment , and hunt when they are out on property. Cats should have the same rules as dog owners, they shouldnt be allowed to wonder the streets and through your backyards early hours of the morning and late at night . As i had a bad experience with a neighbours cat ending up dead when our dog and her cat got into a fight. and the blame was placed onto me , not the fact my dog was in its back yard with a locked fence, 6.5 foot high fence no gaps in it, and her many cats she lets run about at night every night.
Cats hunt all native wild life , kill it , breed with feral cats , causing me feral cats to be born , killing more native wild life.

 

[33s152e]

Neighbour's cat (was a kitten in early 2012) exterminated most of my wild resident (about 20) EWS (juvis and adults) that had been living happily under my house and round my house for several years (I'd created several wild areas and safe places for them to encourage them to stay , most of which I'd "befriended" and some of which regularly took occasional mealworm or cricket treats from my fingers or open hand including 2 females who I'd known for several years and were like pets to us) and a pair of rosellas who were regular visitors and some crested doves too in August and September last year. Was heartbreaking to keep on finding the corpses (never consumed !) over a period of a few weeks as the skinks came out of brumation with the warming weather.

I complaigned often, and was continuously fogged off, they obviously didn't give a stuff. So I invested in a cat trap.

Caught the cat the very first night and the council ranger came and collected it, unregistered, untagged, uncollared, but the owners found out their cat had been taken and it was back that afternoon and I was abused for trapping their mungrel cat.

I've since caught another neighbourhood cat and having learnt my lesson, I dealt with it myself(permanently). Not been able to retrap the neighbour's cat again but it's still allowed to roam.

People who do not / will not control their cats are jerks.

 

[humba_jumba]

for those morons saying a good cat is a dead cat I bet you get upset when people act that way about reptiles especially snakes... Anyone see the irony???

 

[33s152e]

for those morons saying a good cat is a dead cat I bet you get upset when people act that way about reptiles especially snakes... Anyone see the irony???

Actually I love snakes almost as much as lizards, I admire them and love to watch them (from a safe distance if they are venomous) , I've never knowingly harmed any snake I've ever encountered in the wild.

Snakes get a bad wrap, lots of people fear them. It's up the herpers to educate these people.

I regularly see dead snakes and BTS on the roads, some idiots kill them by swerving to purposefully run over them. I wont post my opinion of this.

 

[humba_jumba]

Actually I love snakes almost as much as lizards, I admire them and love to watch them (from a safe distance if they are venomous) , I've never knowingly harmed any snake I've ever encountered in the wild.

Snakes get a bad wrap, lots of people fear them. It's up the herpers to educate these people.

I regularly see dead snakes and BTS on the roads, some idiots kill them by swerving to purposefully run over them. I wont post my opinion of this.

my point precisely...

 

[jack]

entirely the point of my signature... (the aforementioned misuse of irony)

 

[Woma_Wild]

I own dogs and they are contained on my property. I own 3 gorgeous cats that are kept indoors 100% of the time. Cats are provided with heaps of toys, scratch poles,etc and do well indoors. There is absolutely no need to let cats wonder outside. That's just my 2 cents worth.
I don't blame the animals themselves but the owners. Nothing worse that a cat crapping in your garden bed

 

[longqi]

Neighbour's cat (was a kitten in early 2012) exterminated most of my wild resident (about 20) EWS (juvis and adults) that had been living happily under my house and round my house for several years (I'd created several wild areas and safe places for them to encourage them to stay , most of which I'd "befriended" and some of which regularly took occasional mealworm or cricket treats from my fingers or open hand including 2 females who I'd known for several years and were like pets to us) and a pair of rosellas who were regular visitors and some crested doves too in August and September last year. Was heartbreaking to keep on finding the corpses (never consumed !) over a period of a few weeks as the skinks came out of brumation with the warming weather.

I complaigned often, and was continuously fogged off, they obviously didn't give a stuff. So I invested in a cat trap.

Caught the cat the very first night and the council ranger came and collected it, unregistered, untagged, uncollared, but the owners found out their cat had been taken and it was back that afternoon and I was abused for trapping their mungrel cat.

I've since caught another neighbourhood cat and having learnt my lesson, I dealt with it myself(permanently). Not been able to retrap the neighbour's cat again but it's still allowed to roam.

People who do not / will not control their cats are jerks.

the prosecution rests its case??

they are smart
rare to catch a hunter in the same trap
maybe try a simply box and stick trap?

get eden back
pleasure to live in a place like that

 

[Zipidee]

I live near the bush. Lots of dogs in the neighbourhood, all contained. The cats - not so much. We have skinks and birds and snakes and lots of small native things around here. I keep appealing to the neighbours to do the right thing. Usually I'm ignored. Council will declare problem dogs, but not cats. I love animals and will never harm one, even if it's doing the wrong thing. So my solution: two words - garden hose! Usually the offending feline hears the spray coming and takes off. But occasionally, a moggie goes home wet! :lol:

 

[longqi]

I live near the bush. Lots of dogs in the neighbourhood, all contained. The cats - not so much. We have skinks and birds and snakes and lots of small native things around here. I keep appealing to the neighbours to do the right thing. Usually I'm ignored. Council will declare problem dogs, but not cats. :lol:

therein lies a huge part of the problem
most people have never been in an area without cats
they have never seen how prolific the wildlife can be without them

as soon as even one cat arrives the decrease in small wildlife is huge
ecosystems need all parts to work together
they are circles that need to be complete
remove small wildlife and the bigger ones also go