Diamond cross care sheet

[andynic07]

I was wondering with all of the diamond cross matches about what is the thinking on temperatures to keep them at. For example I have seen a diamond cross jungle , what temperatures would you keep this at and would it be susceptible to DPS if kept at temperatures for a jungle?

 

[JM1982]

Good question. One that I have pondered myself.

Can't believe after an hour none of the purists have attacked!! I'm sure this will get interesting once some strong views start being posted.

Ill just sit comfortably on the fence, a leg on either side. Keeping out of it

 

[Skeptic]

A good question and a good reason NOT to create hybrids.

My guess (and its only a guess as I have no experience with diamond crosses except for natural intergrades) is that you would need to keep them cooler if it was a straight cross. If it was something like a jungle/diamond jag with only a small percentage of diamond in it, it would probably be best to treat it like a jungle.

 

[andynic07]

It would be interesting if someone did a long term study on numerous snakes from the same clutch with some kept like diamonds , some kept like jungles and some kept in between. Maybe that would show whether it is viable making these crosses in search of different looking snakes.

 

[Bart70]

Ok...I am going to ask a dumb question.

Diamonds get around 30c max - What are the effect on a Jungle if kept at these temps? Would they go off their food? Would they experience health issues?

 

[oOLaurenOo]

I would be making sure I had a really good temp gradient. With a few different temps and spots for the snake to sit. Hopefully they would sit in the temps they needed and you could then setup a larger tank with similar temps to suit. If that makes sense.

 

[Trimeresurus]

As long as you have a proper gradient would it really matter? I leave my heatmats under a small area of my tanks running flat out with no thermostats all year round. They get far hotter than the '32' that many on here live by(though never hot enough to burn), my snakes are all very healthy and have never had problems. I'm not advising others to heat their tanks like this, but snakes are pretty good at what they do, unless your whole tank is 32 degrees, the snakes will move on to the heat when they need it and off it if they don't. I think some people go overboard with their 250w bulbs ect

 

[Skeptic]

As long as you have a proper gradient would it really matter? I leave my heatmats under a small area of my tanks running flat out with no thermostats all year round. They get far hotter than the '32' that many on here live by(though never hot enough to burn), my snakes are all very healthy and have never had problems. I'm not advising others to heat their tanks like this, but snakes are pretty good at what they do, unless your whole tank is 32 degrees, the snakes will move on to the heat when they need it and off it if they don't. I think some people go overboard with their 250w bulbs ect

Diamonds can't be relied upon to move out of a basking spot of 32 degrees. This won't hurt the snake in small doses but over long periods of time can lead to DPS.

 

[Jacknife]

I have two yearling 50/50 diamond x jungles. I keep them in a tub rack system atm, thermo set at 30c. Cool end sits about 23c-24c. They roam about all over the place and are perfectly fine finding their happy spots.

 

[Skeptic]

I have two yearling 50/50 diamond x jungles. I keep them in a tub rack system atm, thermo set at 30c. Cool end sits about 23c-24c. They roam about all over the place and are perfectly fine finding their happy spots.

Are they 1st generation hybrids? I would be interested to hear about any adult jungle/diamonds over 6 years of age as that is typically when DPS can begin to show.

 

[andynic07]

I have two yearling 50/50 diamond x jungles. I keep them in a tub rack system atm, thermo set at 30c. Cool end sits about 23c-24c. They roam about all over the place and are perfectly fine finding their happy spots.

It would be good to see how these snakes go over their lifetime and if that lifespan is shortened in anyway. That is why I feel a long term study is required , DPS and fatty liver disease are things that are brought on over a long period and caused by us keepers getting it slightly wrong even though meaning well. I am in no way way saying that you do have it wrong but at this stage have no proof either way.

 

[Jacknife]

Are they 1st generation hybrids? I would be interested to hear about any adult jungle/diamonds over 6 years of age as that is typically when DPS can begin to show.

They are Jag sibs.

It would be good to see how these snakes go over their lifetime and if that lifespan is shortened in anyway. That is why I feel a long term study is required , DPS and fatty liver disease are things that are brought on over a long period and caused by us keepers getting it slightly wrong even though meaning well. I am in no way way saying that you do have it wrong but at this stage have no proof either way.

Agreed, but keeping them pretty much as Diamonds I wouldn't expect there to be any complications with DPS at all...

 

[andynic07]

Agreed, but keeping them pretty much as Diamonds I wouldn't expect there to be any complications with DPS at all...

My point was more that us keepers may possibly unknowingly be introducing a new thing that may harm our snakes because we don't really fully understand genetics. Not necessarily fatty liver or DPS but something new. Can you also post a picture up of your snakes please. This is my cross , a diamond x coastal.

 

[champagne]

there are plenty of adult diamond crosses getting around that are fine.... people worry to much about different temps for each sub species when in fact they will all breed and live successfully at the same temp, 27c to 23c. just because the northern snakes are subject to high temps in the wild doesn't mean they need it, in fact they will hide in cooler spots during these high temps and come out when its cooler.

 

[champagne]

Terry Phillip talks everything Morelia 01/14 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio have a listen if you don't want to listen to the whole thing have a listen around 47mins

 

[Pythoninfinite]

This won't hurt the snake in small doses but over long periods of time can lead to DPS.

Do you have any proof of this Skeptic?

Jamie

 

[Jacknife]

My point was more that us keepers may possibly unknowingly be introducing a new thing that may harm our snakes because we don't really fully understand genetics. Not necessarily fatty liver or DPS but something new. Can you also post a picture up of your snakes please. This is my cross , a diamond x coastal.

As opposed to the thousands of other cross bred snakes over the world that are perfectly fine.
I see this as a whole pile of needless worry really, as long as your fundamental husbandry is solid they'll be fine.
Remember at the end of the day it's still just Morelia x Morelia...

 

[Skeptic]

Do you have any proof of this Skeptic?

Jamie

I thought it was fairly common knowledge Jamie?

Luckily I haven't experienced DPS firsthand as I have adhered to all the advice from people such as Simon Stone and others with a lot of experience on the subject and I have been successfully keeping diamonds for over ten years without issue.

You might note that I was also only talking about pure diamonds, not hybrids, and started my first post in this thread with a rather loud throat clearing stating that I have no experience with hybrids other than intergrades and can only guess. My guess was that if DPS is a genetic issue it could easily be transferred with hybridisation and if the trigger is temperature then the safest thing to do would be to keep the animal in the safe temperature zone for diamonds.

I'd like to know why you think I'm wrong and look forward to being shut down in pythoninfinite style.

 

[Jacknife]

I thought it was fairly common knowledge Jamie?

Luckily I haven't experienced DPS firsthand as I have adhered to all the advice from people such as Simon Stone and others with a lot of experience on the subject and I have been successfully keeping diamonds for over ten years without issue.

You might note that I was also only talking about pure diamonds, not hybrids, and started my first thread in this post with a rather loud throat clearing stating that I have no experience with hybrids other than intergrades and can only guess. My guess was that if DPS is a genetic issue it could easily be transferred with hybridisation and if the trigger is temperature then the safest thing to do would be to keep the animal in the safe temperature zone for diamonds.

I'd like to know why you think I'm wrong and look forward to being shut down in pythoninfinite style.

What I'm doing...

 

[andynic07]

there are plenty of adult diamond crosses getting around that are fine.... people worry to much about different temps for each sub species when in fact they will all breed and live successfully at the same temp, 27c to 23c. just because the northern snakes are subject to high temps in the wild doesn't mean they need it, in fact they will hide in cooler spots during these high temps and come out when its cooler.

I am not worried about my snake as he does all of the things that snakes should do but have been more curious with the talk of diamonds getting DPS if given a basking spot of 33 or too much heat time. I would also think that location varieties of pythons would evolve into what they are for certain but slight ecological reasons that we do not know about.