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Sure I have seen many snakes doing ball tricks like seals.

Train? No
Can they become accustomed to us and see us as less of a threat than a wild snake would? Yes.

I will accept snakes can be "trained" when I see them performing obstacle courses like dogs.

we train a dog or cat not to bite and that is considered training
but when we train a snake not to bite we cannot call it training???

the last part is easily done
put a lego maze inside a viv
put food inside the maze
release snake
it will find the food
repeat several times
then dont put any food there but pretend you have
the snake will go hunting through the maze

learned behaviour or training?
 
"Training"? No.

"Habituation"? Yes.

Using an example of Monitors that can discriminate between two offered stimuli. eg. Press 'X' lever for food. 'Blank' lever nothing. They can learn to target the 'X'. 'Learning' being the key word(Several examples on Youtube). Never seen an example of this with snakes.

Glad to be corrected.
 
I have heard some people suggest that someone who does reptile demonstrations with elapids has trained these snakes so they do not bite. This to me is an example that the snake is not trained. The demonstrator is trained and has a lot of experience with elapids and the personality of that particular snake. They know how to act and react so not to get bitten, they can also apply these principles to wild snakes and not get bitten despite these snakes having no training. I am sure that if the demonstrator was to have an off day and move in the wrong way that these trained snakes would bite or at least try to. The same can be said for python owners , they learn how to handle a python and the snake becomes accustomed to our scent.
 
I have heard some people suggest that someone who does reptile demonstrations with elapids has trained these snakes so they do not bite. This to me is an example that the snake is not trained. The demonstrator is trained and has a lot of experience with elapids and the personality of that particular snake. They know how to act and react so not to get bitten, they can also apply these principles to wild snakes and not get bitten despite these snakes having no training. I am sure that if the demonstrator was to have an off day and move in the wrong way that these trained snakes would bite or at least try to. The same can be said for python owners , they learn how to handle a python and the snake becomes accustomed to our scent.

Many demonstrators pass pythons round like lollypops to strangers from every age group without anyone getting bitten
Those handling the python often have never touched a snake before
Snake has never encountered that persons scent before
Demonstrator has no control over the python
A wild python would either bite or try to flee
Demonstrators ones simply pose for the shot and go to the next person

If a dog does this we call it trained
But we cannot say the same about a snake??
 
I don't believe train would be the correct term. It's more tolerating us and out constant pestering.
 
Many demonstrators pass pythons round like lollypops to strangers from every age group without anyone getting bitten
Those handling the python often have never touched a snake before
Snake has never encountered that persons scent before
Demonstrator has no control over the python
A wild python would either bite or try to flee
Demonstrators ones simply pose for the shot and go to the next person

If a dog does this we call it trained
But we cannot say the same about a snake??
It seems the main point of contention is the definition of training. I think that in my definition of training that a snake can not be trained but more learn what it's threats are and what are not threats. It is funny how the definition of the word trained can change when applied to different situations. For example you would never say that you trained a child to talk and maybe because this requires a thought process to apply the speech in the correct way , I am not sure.
 
Many demonstrators pass pythons round like lollypops to strangers from every age group without anyone getting bitten
Those handling the python often have never touched a snake before
Snake has never encountered that persons scent before
Demonstrator has no control over the python
A wild python would either bite or try to flee
Demonstrators ones simply pose for the shot and go to the next person

If a dog does this we call it trained
But we cannot say the same about a snake??

When I was 7 at primary school I picked up a wild brown tree snake and handled it. While I loved reptiles I had no hands on experience with them. The BTS didn't bite which is quite amazing. It definitely wasn't trained.

I think it depends on snakes, some are calmer than others. I'm sure anyone who has moved a wild diamond off the road can attest that they can be just as placid as captive bred ones. Or a few members on here said they used to catch Brown snakes, tiger, etc when they were little.

Demonstration python are normally selected for their placid nature, I wouldn't say they have being trained.

So to answer the question, do I think snakes can be trained? No.

Do I think they are creatures of habit? Yes.
 
Many demonstrators pass pythons round like lollypops to strangers from every age group without anyone getting bitten
Those handling the python often have never touched a snake before
Snake has never encountered that persons scent before
Demonstrator has no control over the python
A wild python would either bite or try to flee
Demonstrators ones simply pose for the shot and go to the next person

If a dog does this we call it trained
But we cannot say the same about a snake??

"BUT" do not feed that same demonstration python for a month and then try passing it around like a lillipop and i am sure the outcome would be different, i did a lot of work with the late great Eric Worrel with B.E.Spiders and Funnel webs in the mid 80s and he used to relay a story to me about the late George Cann the "Snake Man of La Parouse" George did snake shows every weekend down at the beach and 1 of his favorite "hand around" snakes was a 3m Coastal called "Monty", 1 Sat morning George was running a bit late getting down to the beach and asked his grandson to bag up monty for the trip, anyway to make a long story short during the hand around "Monty" lashed out and clamped down on some womans throat, it caused quite a stir and took a good while to get "Willma" off the womans throat and back in the bag, as it transpired "willma" who the grandson bagged by mistake was being cooled and not fed in prep for breeding, whereas "Monty" was always fed up big prior to snake shows so he had no interest in biting, SO yes we do have some control over them by using the snakes digestive process to slow them down and make them a little better to handle, even the ones at the Australian Reptile Park and the Australia Zoo are fed up big before they are brought out for photo sessions :)......................................Ron
 
Very interesting thread. Can snakes really learn your scent and tell you part from other people? I believe my GTS can, he will be calm as when I get him out and stay on my shoulders for ages without attempting to flee. For a GTS I have being told this is rare as they are so flighty and lightning fast. When I sister attempts to pick him up, he makes every attempt to flee and takes awhile to settle.
I would even say it seems he can tell who is opening his tank to and either hides or stands up and attempts to flee straight out before you get your hand in or calmly waits to be picked up.
I would love to hear your opinion on this, he is after all my first snake so I am a beginner :)
 
The natural instinct of any wild snake is flight when humans approach
yet how many pet snakes flee when approached??

the natural instinct of any wild snake is to go mental if their head is even lightly restrained
yet I can lightly grip most of mine and even pull open their mouths to show their teeth without a quiver??

This is not really true, a lot of wild snakes will not flee when humans approach (especially pythons), the majority remain motionless to try and remain undetected. The same goes for head restraining. A lot of wild pythons and even some of the smaller elapids won't even struggle when lightly restrained by the head.
It is also a common misconception that all wild snakes will bite, etc when approached/picked up. A surprising amount of wild pythons handle better than captives. It all comes down to individual snakes attitudes.. both in the wild and in captivity.
 
Where i work there is approx 3 to 6 wild GTS, which are exposed to a lot of people traffic.
They are complacent or conditioned, as you you can just pick them without a fuss. Unintentional Training???
My Snakes hang on to them selves and have trained me to take them for a walk so they can do their business.
They have large enclosures and are very active to get out, so its nothing to do with the slithering or wriggling that makes a snake Poo.
If conditioning or leaned behavior is Training, that is beyond instinctual, then i say yes.....but very limited.
 
Generally speaking, training (or learning) generally involves the use of an antecedent (an external cue or stimulus), a behaviour from the individual concerned and a consequence. Ie, a mouse enters the snakes sensory field (the antecedent), the snake strikes (the behaviour) and catches the mouse (the consequence). In this case, the snake has used instinct, however, it would also be learning and refining it's technique, becoming more efficient with every practice and that becoming more efficient is learning, or training in other words. This sequence of events is called operant conditioning in psychological lingo, more specifically operant conditioning using positive reinforcement. Learning can also happen using negative reinforcement, in which there is still an antecedent, behaviour and consequence, but this time, the consequence is avoidance or removal of an unwanted stimulus. Someone earlier in this thread gave an example of this when they described that their snake moved to the area where it would not be picked up from when it saw someone approaching (I know that's not the exact details, but I hope it's close enough). In this case, the antecedent is the approaching individual, the behaviour is to move to the "safe" spot and the consequence is being left alone. In both these cases, the behaviour is considered reinforcing, meaning that the snake is likely to utilise the same behaviour when presented with the same stimulus simply because it worked. Now I'm not saying snakes are the most intelligent creatures on the planet, but it has been shown that you do not need to be overly intelligent to respond this kind of basic learning or training. There is solid evidence (and you're going to have to forgive me for not knowing the reference of the top of my head) that tube worms were trained using a beam of light as a cue, to come out of there tube and receive a treat. In no way is it instinctive for a tube worm to see light then leave their tube assuming that they would find food, but they were trained none the less, in a relatively quick time, that the light beam stimulus (antecedent) meant that if they came out of their tube (behaviour), they would be rewarded with a tid bit of food (consequence). This was easily trained in that the stimulus could be presented many times in succession and the tube worm "rewarded" for it's behaviour of coming out of its tube. The trouble with using this theory for training snakes is that one of the easiest ways to train any animal is to use a primary reinforcer, something that an animal finds instinctively motivating, to reinforce a behaviour after a cue. In most cases this is done most simply using food, as with the tube worms. Using this method, we are a disadvantaged in formally training a snake in that best case scenario, they eat once a week, which would mean they've likely forgot what any overly novel action they took that resulted in the food last time. Consequently, we won't be seeing snakes doing circus tricks anytime soon, however, theoretically they would be learning to respond their environment and those who handle them constantly, like many animals more and less intelligent than they. And while I'm still ranting, as someone pointed out, there are monitors that have been shown to respond to novel cues in order to gain a food item. I believe that monitors, dragons and skinks would be much easier to train, not based on intelligence, but rather that they could simply be rewarded with small food items more regularly, giving them a chance to practice and perfect more novel behaviours.
 
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Really interesting reading this thread.



Do you think snakes react differently to different people?
Ive heard a number of times that people will say they have sold their snake as it was snappy/biting, but with the new owner, they are fine from day one? Why would that be? Is it because the new owner is more confident perhaps? Different smells?
 
I think they become used to someones smell and they may want to come back to that smell as they know that smell is “safe“ and non threatening as to someone new with a different smell. So we may interpret that as the snakes “liking“ us but i dont think thats the case. Some snakes may become snappy with new people as they associate the new scent or someones particular scent as a threat. This is just my opinion.

Sent from my LG-P690f using Tapatalk 2
 
Generally speaking, training (or learning) generally involves the use of an antecedent (an external cue or stimulus), a behaviour from the individual concerned and a consequence. Ie, a mouse enters the snakes sensory field (the antecedent), the snake strikes (the behaviour) and catches the mouse (the consequence). In this case, the snake has used instinct, however, it would also be learning and refining it's technique, becoming more efficient with every practice and that becoming more efficient is learning, or training in other words. This sequence of events is called operant conditioning in psychological lingo, more specifically operant conditioning using positive reinforcement. Learning can also happen using negative reinforcement, in which there is still an antecedent, behaviour and consequence, but this time, the consequence is avoidance or removal of an unwanted stimulus. Someone earlier in this thread gave an example of this when they described that their snake moved to the area where it would not be picked up from when it saw someone approaching (I know that's not the exact details, but I hope it's close enough). In this case, the antecedent is the approaching individual, the behaviour is to move to the "safe" spot and the consequence is being left alone. In both these cases, the behaviour is considered reinforcing, meaning that the snake is likely to utilise the same behaviour when presented with the same stimulus simply because it worked. Now I'm not saying snakes are the most intelligent creatures on the planet, but it has been shown that you do not need to be overly intelligent to respond this kind of basic learning or training. There is solid evidence (and you're going to have to forgive me for not knowing the reference of the top of my head) that tube worms were trained using a beam of light as a cue, to come out of there tube and receive a treat. In no way is it instinctive for a tube worm to see light then leave their tube assuming that they would find food, but they were trained none the less, in a relatively quick time, that the light beam stimulus (antecedent) meant that if they came out of their tube (behaviour), they would be rewarded with a tid bit of food (consequence). This was easily trained in that the stimulus could be presented many times in succession and the tube worm "rewarded" for it's behaviour of coming out of its tube. The trouble with using this theory for training snakes is that one of the easiest ways to train any animal is to use a primary reinforcer, something that an animal finds instinctively motivating, to reinforce a behaviour after a cue. In most cases this is done most simply using food, as with the tube worms. Using this method, we are a disadvantaged in formally training a snake in that best case scenario, they eat once a week, which would mean they've likely forgot what any overly novel action they took that resulted in the food last time. Consequently, we won't be seeing snakes doing circus tricks anytime soon, however, theoretically they would be learning to respond their environment and those who handle them constantly, like many animals more and less intelligent than they. And while I'm still ranting, as someone pointed out, there are monitors that have been shown to respond to novel cues in order to gain a food item. I believe that monitors, dragons and skinks would be much easier to train, not based on intelligence, but rather that they could simply be rewarded with small food items more regularly, giving them a chance to practice and perfect more novel behaviours.


i agree with what what snohara has said,i studied captive animal husbandry and one subject,conditioning we learnt about these principles and it works with any living creature.
 
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