Is it still a hobby?

[andynic07]

just as with art, writing etc etc in every hobby there are x number of people who push the envelope
sometimes this eventually helps the hobby by creating new opportunities
sometimes it doesnt
so to these people it is still considered a hobby because of their belief in themselves rather than the welfare of the animals in their care

Interesting point, each person has a different view and different important aspects of the hobby I guess. To me welfare of the animals is the most important aspect but saying that I bet there was a lot of animals lost at the start of the hobby while husbandry techniques were discovered.

 

[SpilotaFreak78]

breeders have made and still do make loads of tax free money.

I hope you have extensve proof of that. snake breeding is not something you can make money out of unless you have multiple rare morphs and even then its under the banner of a business which is lodged to the ATO.

 

[lizardwhisperer]

Well, I've always been fascinated by and loved herps (esp lizards and frogs) and my lizards are more companion pets than anything else and treated like scalely 4 legged children with loads of contact time and physical contact with us.
Any babies we get as result of them doing what comes naturally if we let them, I'm more inclined to give away to friends and relatives than selling them. So for me , THIS IS ONE OF MY HOBBIES IN THE TRUEST SENSE AND NOT A BUSINESS (I just can not be bothered with turning my interest in lizards into a money making microbusiness or the complications involved in that , and I'm sure there a lots of others in the hobby who feel the same).

My message to those who breed to make money is since they are making money, cut the crap and admit it and do the right thing and pay the GST and income tax and don't spoil this wonderful hobby for the rest of us by doing "BLACKMARKETING" and forcing the state and fed governments to crack down and make more restrictions on all off us.

 

[junglepython2]

I have just witnessed a number of people on a Facebook group in Queensland discussing jag to jag pairings with the knowledge of the fatal gene killing potentially 25% of the clutch on the off chance the will nail one that will live. I think that this certainly fits into this discussion and those actions are not of someone who is partaking in a hobby. They are talking about pairing a number together and didn't seem to care about the poor snakes and to me that stops it being a hobby.

Jag to Jag makes less unwanted sibs. Plus just about all the Lucy's don't even hatch, so I don't really see a major welfare issue over the usual Jag to normal pairing.

 

[longqi]

Jag to Jag makes less unwanted sibs. Plus just about all the Lucy's don't even hatch, so I don't really see a major welfare issue over the usual Jag to normal pairing.

So deliberately breeding animals when you already know some will not survive the birthing stage is ok???

 

[junglepython2]

So deliberately breeding animals when you already know some will not survive the birthing stage is ok???

I personally don't have a problem with it, I don't consider it cruel if they don't hatch. I have more of an issue with raising animals with known neuro for the rest of there lives.

 

[Rogue5861]

I personally don't have a problem with it, I don't consider it cruel if they don't hatch. I have more of an issue with raising animals with known neuro for the rest of there lives.

I'm sort of in the same boat, neuro is a lot bigger problem then low clutch success.


Rick

 

[bk201]

I hope you have extensve proof of that. snake breeding is not something you can make money out of unless you have multiple rare morphs and even then its under the banner of a business which is lodged to the ATO.

As said people don't declare the income so you cannot prove anything unless you go through classifieds on these type of sites for a year or two and you will see what is being bred and in what numbers there are many breeders breeding so many reptiles they are hiding it from the ATO and the licensing system to the point some of them ask you to put down your purchases as "gifts received rather than a sale...

 

[andynic07]

Jag to Jag makes less unwanted sibs. Plus just about all the Lucy's don't even hatch, so I don't really see a major welfare issue over the usual Jag to normal pairing.

That is one point that I did not think about. Not sure if I agree or disagree at this stage but definitely agree with longqi that this is pushing the boundaries. I think I will have to have a think about this one. Can you provide any more information as to what stage of development the snakes get to in the egg before they die?

 

[Merkinball]

I personally don't have a problem with it, I don't consider it cruel if they don't hatch. I have more of an issue with raising animals with known neuro for the rest of there lives.

I'm in the same boat as longqi and andynic07 on this, i'm not sure how about how i feel about the non hatchies. But i do agree about the issue of neuro in these cases. Do you think that the breeder would sell affected animals, or continue to care for the neuro affected hatchies their whole lives, or would they simply be euthanized (perhaps in the animals best interest), therefore highlighting the lack of thought and care involved in what they were doing?

 

[Justdragons]

I cannot stand that people are cross breeding the jag gene resulting in neuro. It is solely to breed designer morphs and i for one look at it in a very dim view. Would you have a child that you knew would be a super model but would be down syndrome and couldn't feed them self.. no you wouldn't because it wouldn't be fair on the child..(That is in a way you had the choice before conceiving. I'm in no way going in to a abortion debate here).

I think the biggest danger our hobby faces at this point is the cross breeding localitys to achieve designer morphs. For some reason when the jag gene came about people started to cross this out to other localitys.. Ive seen Bredli x jungle x diamond jags.. now this isnt even the biggest problem. the problem lies in what happens to the not so amazing sibs.. they are sold to general public wanting a 'carpet python'. Later down the track breeding them and selling them as a jungle carpet..
The Americans are amazed by our locality specific carpets and so am i. We need to preserve this. Morphs are great and i own an albino myself but i feel we need locality preservation.. I have lost so much respect for some breeders who i always though were kings and queens amongst men for this exact reason

breeding a young python that often spends a life in retarded stupor is ignorant are you breeding to be the first to get a rare morph or line the pockets.? A life is a life, snake or human.

This is just my honest opinion. Im not trying to ruffle feathers at all.

Stay classy Herpers..

 

[lizardwhisperer]

As said people don't declare the income so you cannot prove anything unless you go through classifieds on these type of sites for a year or two and you will see what is being bred and in what numbers there are many breeders breeding so many reptiles they are hiding it from the ATO and the licensing system to the point some of them ask you to put down your purchases as "gifts received rather than a sale...

Any who wants me to enter the source as gift recieved better not expect me to pay for said "gift".

 

[Gavatron]

I think its a good subject to keep discussing. The hobby will hopefully keeping developing responsible practices which will help the overall public view of this rather niche hobby.
Unlike the USA, we don't have the huge population to support some of the reptile warehouses we see over there, which can become a horrible mess if they have business management issues. One business there was recently found to have several hundered reptiles and 20,000 rodents in purtid conditions.
Personally, I like my three snakes but would never start breeding, but for those that want that challenge, good luck. Just do it all responsibly and make a few bucks if you can.

 

[Merkinball]

Unlike the USA, we don't have the huge population to support some of the reptile warehouses we see over there, which can become a horrible mess if they have business management issues. One business there was recently found to have several hundered reptiles and 20,000 rodents in purtid conditions.
.

I think we are probably a long way off how the US now operates (thankfully), but this does raise the question, with the new laws allowing snakes to be sold in NSW pet shops, does anyone think this will have an effect on the breeding numbers etc and perhaps increase the chances of the above situation. I personally know that i would never purchase a snake from a pet shop, thats just personal choice, but does the availability increase the opportunity of "impulse" buys? Considering the ease of licensing in many states.

 

[Serpent_Gazeux]

.

 

[daniel1234]

I think it is still a hobby and breeding reptiles is actually a skill to learn because it is not as easy as buying two furry critter's and letting it happen. Plus it takes up a lot of time. I would hope that those looking to acquire large numbers of reptiles in a short time have actually bred a few beforehand. My collection turned over a bit because I am a sucker for rehab. Once the critter was back to health I would move it on. It can be frustrating and occasionally heartbreaking but I value the learning curve it provided. Plus I have interacted with a few different species other than my keepers.

 

[champagne]

If you want pure locality reptiles you can and will always find them..... not all jags have major neuro problems, In my experience less then 5% of jags have a major neuro issue but everyone hates on jags without actually knowing the facts.

 

[Rogue5861]

If you want pure locality reptiles you can and will always find them..... not all jags have major neuro problems, In my experience less then 5% of jags have a major neuro issue but everyone hates on jags without actually knowing the facts.

Agreed. A lot of people associate jags with all having neuro where it actually isnt fact, same as woma's and bhp's being exclusive reptile eaters (around 50% at best, most other species around 30%).

I love a lot of the pure locales but a gorgeous jag always catchs my eye, i guess like high coloured beardies.

 

[Pitttownboy]

Jags have there place in the hobby same as any other species, I personally love the look but don't have them out of favour towards purebred but I can definatley see the attraction

 

[champagne]

Agreed. A lot of people associate jags with all having neuro where it actually isnt fact.

they actually all do have some amount of neruo problems but most is so little that people actually don't notice.