Bad shed - again!

[Lawra]

How long are your snakes usually in 'shedding mode' for before they actually shed? It takes about a week for my woma

Usually a week for me too. This time was day 1) milky eyes, day 2) clear eyes, day 3) shed.

 

[champagne]

He's definitely not dehydrated; pees like a dog on a tree.

No stuck shed at all this time around

so he was hydrated enough to pee and shed correctly? no that's why you had the problems... All I'm saying is I keep my snakes at lower humidity and don't get stuck sheds because I inject all my food items with water before feeding.

 

[Lawra]

so he was hydrated enough to pee and shed correctly? no that's why you had the problems... All I'm saying is I keep my snakes at lower humidity and don't get stuck sheds because I inject all my food items with water before feeding.

How do you defrost your food? I put rats directly into a bowl of hot tap water.

Did you notice the part where I'm no longer having problems?

Thank you for your input, even though you are coming across rather snappy.

 

[Lawra]

Some pics

Huge compared to his shed in July

 

[champagne]

How do you defrost your food? I put rats directly into a bowl of hot tap water.

Did you notice the part where I'm no longer having problems?

Thank you for your input, even though you are coming across rather snappy.

I defrost mine in water as well and just before feeding inject with water.
yes I did notice the part where you have increased the humidity and will be waiting for you next thread '' my woma has RI''
I not being snappy sorry if it seems that way, just giving advise to what the really problem might be take it or leave it up to you

 

[princessparrot]

my girl seems to have abit of trouble just with some of the scales on her head....

 

[Lawra]

I defrost mine in water as well and just before feeding inject with water.
yes I did notice the part where you have increased the humidity and will be waiting for you next thread '' my woma has RI''
I not being snappy sorry if it seems that way, just giving advise to what the really problem might be take it or leave it up to you

Both my snakes are due to be fed tonight but I don't have anything to inject water with. I will give it a go next Sunday though.

I thought reptiles get RI from cold and moisture? Being young my pets still get 24/7 heat (with temp gradient of course).

I always welcome advice there are many ways to skin a cat and I'm still learning what works best for my pets in this tropical climate. We'll see what happens in a couple of months when wet season hits, I'll probably be asking how to cool their tanks and lower humidity lol.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Dysecdysis is not a problem unto itself. It is symptomatic of an underlying problem or problems. It certainly seems from what was happening and what has since happened, that insufficient hydration is was part of the issue. A base humidity of 30% is too low, even for an arid zone snake. Around 40% up to 50% is desirable. Beyond 60% and you are getting into the too high range for most species. I suspect you have might have a reverse cycle air-conditioner somewhere in the house not so far away. Indoors you don’t get the dramatic swings in humidity that are part of the outdoors weather.

You know about vents, providing fresh water every second day, adequate hides, addition of water to outside of food, injection of water into food if desired, placement and surface area of water bowls etc... so no need to rehash old ground.

All else being equal, shedding rates are dependent on growth rates which are dependent feeding rates – how much and how often. An average for someone maintaining a conservative feeding rate and therefore growth rate, would be a shed once every six weeks as a juvenile changing to once every twelve weeks as an adult and ultimately three or four times a year at full size.

What concerns me is your comment that he “pees like a dog”. Snakes are designed to excrete their nitrogenous wastes as solid uric acid. Sometimes, when water is plentiful, as in captivity, there will be a small amount of accompanying urates and urea in moisture. Their kidneys are designed to work to conserve moisture. Captive snakes with regular access to water may regularly excrete a small amount of moisture, but it should not be a lot. I am wondering if diuresis is not a contributing issue. Sorry I cannot help beyond that.

Blue

 

[Ramy]

My snakes drink a lot when it's time to poo, and it seems to help them pass waste a little easier. While they pass urate instead of urine, they still get the newspaper seriously wet when they poo. I think it's reasonable to refer to this as "peeing like a dog". That's what it looks like.

Also, Lawra: if you're concerned you might have humidity fluctuating during the day, I don't know of any hygrometers (without going full-blown weather stations that connect up to the PC) that keep track of changes over the day, but you can often find them with a Max/Min reading, which will tell you what the upper and lower values were since you cleared the memory. I doubt you're getting much variation except what is weather based, which tends to change over days not hours.

I wouldn't be concerned about RI. While some of the suggestions on here were some rather drastic ways to provide moisture, I'd only consider them near shedding time. (providing a damp hide all year round probably will promote illness) If you can experiment until you have a relatively stable humidity near 50%, your snake should be fine. (Here in the Illawarra, It's not unusual to have a humidity over 60% or under 40% for days at a time, it usually stays around the 45-50% mark. Assuming my hygrometer is accurate).

Take some of the advise on here with a grain of salt: if you doubt yourself and try to please everyone, you'll just end up stressing over nothing. Everyone does things differently.
Compare the humidity in the room to the humidity of the enclosure. If the enclosure is drier than the room, do something about the vents/air transfer/turning the heating down at night. If the room gets just as dry, then you may just have to increase the humidity when he goes into shed-mode. If you have air conditioning, consider keeping him in an unconditioned room.

 

[Lawra]

Dysecdysis is not a problem unto itself. It is symptomatic of an underlying problem or problems. It certainly seems from what was happening and what has since happened, that insufficient hydration is was part of the issue. A base humidity of 30% is too low, even for an arid zone snake. Around 40% up to 50% is desirable. Beyond 60% and you are getting into the too high range for most species. I suspect you have might have a reverse cycle air-conditioner somewhere in the house not so far away. Indoors you don’t get the dramatic swings in humidity that are part of the outdoors weather.

You know about vents, providing fresh water every second day, adequate hides, addition of water to outside of food, injection of water into food if desired, placement and surface area of water bowls etc... so no need to rehash old ground.

All else being equal, shedding rates are dependent on growth rates which are dependent feeding rates – how much and how often. An average for someone maintaining a conservative feeding rate and therefore growth rate, would be a shed once every six weeks as a juvenile changing to once every twelve weeks as an adult and ultimately three or four times a year at full size.

What concerns me is your comment that he “pees like a dog”. Snakes are designed to excrete their nitrogenous wastes as solid uric acid. Sometimes, when water is plentiful, as in captivity, there will be a small amount of accompanying urates and urea in moisture. Their kidneys are designed to work to conserve moisture. Captive snakes with regular access to water may regularly excrete a small amount of moisture, but it should not be a lot. I am wondering if diuresis is not a contributing issue. Sorry I cannot help beyond that.

Blue

Thanks Blue

I don't have ducted air con, just a little one in the wall that hasn't been turned on since the start of the year; I think my vent was just too big. I have kept a dry hand towel covering most of the vent since he shed and the humidity has been at 40% the few times I've peeked at it.

Regarding peeing... He passes the solid white urates but certainly has peed: once with great oomph all over me -_- but then followed through with a poo. Is liquid unusual?

My snakes drink a lot when it's time to poo, and it seems to help them pass waste a little easier. While they pass urate instead of urine, they still get the newspaper seriously wet when they poo. I think it's reasonable to refer to this as "peeing like a dog". That's what it looks like.

Also, Lawra: if you're concerned you might have humidity fluctuating during the day, I don't know of any hygrometers (without going full-blown weather stations that connect up to the PC) that keep track of changes over the day, but you can often find them with a Max/Min reading, which will tell you what the upper and lower values were since you cleared the memory. I doubt you're getting much variation except what is weather based, which tends to change over days not hours.

I wouldn't be concerned about RI. While some of the suggestions on here were some rather drastic ways to provide moisture, I'd only consider them near shedding time. (providing a damp hide all year round probably will promote illness) If you can experiment until you have a relatively stable humidity near 50%, your snake should be fine. (Here in the Illawarra, It's not unusual to have a humidity over 60% or under 40% for days at a time, it usually stays around the 45-50% mark. Assuming my hygrometer is accurate).

Take some of the advise on here with a grain of salt: if you doubt yourself and try to please everyone, you'll just end up stressing over nothing. Everyone does things differently.
Compare the humidity in the room to the humidity of the enclosure. If the enclosure is drier than the room, do something about the vents/air transfer/turning the heating down at night. If the room gets just as dry, then you may just have to increase the humidity when he goes into shed-mode. If you have air conditioning, consider keeping him in an unconditioned room.

Thanks heaps

 

[Bluetongue1]

My apologies. I thought I had qualified that the moisture was in association with the urates and not part of the faecal wastes. If the faeces is well and truly wet when he “pees like a dog” that is not a urinary problem.

I probably further confused you with the naming of the air-conditioner. So allow me to go right back to basics. There are two basic ways in which air-conditioners work. Evaporative conditioners blow air through a wet surface, causing the moisture to evaporate, which has a cooling effect. This adds humidity to the air. The effectiveness of this type of cooling is progressively reduced as the ambient humidity increases. The other of air-conditioner is generally referred to as refrigerative cooling as it operates on the same principles as the household refrigerator. It compresses air, which causes it heat up and also liquefies any water vapour (humidity). The heat is then released to the outdoors and the liquid water drained off. The compression is released on the air and it expands cooling down in the process, which is what provides the cooling effect.This INCORRECT- see correction below. This type of air-conditioning reduces atmospheric moisture.

As I endeavoured to point out earlier, it is up to you as to whether you wish to treat the symptoms of the problem or the root cause of it. From the info you have recently presented it is sounding very much like excessive sized vents in a dry atmosphere. Best of luck with the next enclosure.

Once again, I do apologise if I confused you in any way.
Blue

CORRECTION:Gas contained in sealed tubing is compressed, which causes it to heat up. The warmed gas is run through a radiator where the heat is given off to the outside air. The now cooled compressed gas is piped inside and the pressure is released so it expands and gets colder. Being cold it will absorb heat from its surrounds, such as air pushed over it with a fan. Moisture in the air condenses on the cold surface, like on a cold drink on a table, and is drained off.

 

[Lawra]

Thanks Blue I was mainly confused about the air con because it hasn't been on, but now I know more about how air cons work

I will take him to get checked over by a vet if he shouldn't be expelling so much liquid; will keep you updated

 

[Boondocker]

My apologies. I thought I had qualified that the moisture was in association with the urates and not part of the faecal wastes. If the faeces is well and truly wet when he “pees like a dog” that is not a urinary problem.

I probably further confused you with the naming of the air-conditioner. So allow me to go right back to basics. There are two basic ways in which air-conditioners work. Evaporative conditioners blow air through a wet surface, causing the moisture to evaporate, which has a cooling effect. This adds humidity to the air. The effectiveness of this type of cooling is progressively reduced as the ambient humidity increases. The other of air-conditioner is generally referred to as refrigerative cooling as it operates on the same principles as the household refrigerator. It compresses air, which causes it heat up and also liquefies any water vapour (humidity). The heat is then released to the outdoors and the liquid water drained off. The compression is released on the air and it expands cooling down in the process, which is what provides the cooling effect. This type of air-conditioning reduces atmospheric moisture.

As I endeavoured to point out earlier, it is up to you as to whether you wish to treat the symptoms of the problem or the root cause of it. From the info you have recently presented it is sounding very much like excessive sized vents in a dry atmosphere. Best of luck with the next enclosure.

Once again, I do apologise if I confused you in any way.
Blue

Hi, the air drying effect caused by air conditioning is a side effect, not a component of the refridgeration cycle; the air con unit compresses chemicals, not air.

The air drying effect is due to moisture leaving the air and condensing on the outside of the cold evaporator coil, much like a glass of ice tea needs a coaster under it because it gathers moisture on the outside of the glass.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Thanks for picking that up Boondocker.

It is not the first time I have had a mental block at night when unable to sleep properly. I knew I had something wrong at the time, as water cannot leave a sealed unit, but the brain refused to solve it.

Blue