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Small eyes... It does happen. I often wonder what this snake would look like as an adult.
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burramundi,-

I disagree 100% with the fertility issues that you say albino olives have. People have trouble breeding normal olives, i find them as easy to breed as any other python. I also dissagree with the deformity problems, none of the albinos that i have produced have shown any signs of this at all. As you have said, probaly due to bad incubation techniques and nothing to do with the olives genetics.
Its just boils down to the way that they are raised and kept, simple as that. Bedford tried to tell me years ago that they wouldnt bred untill they were at least 4-5 years old. This is rubbish and i told him so.
Ive bred normals, normal x albino, albino x het and albino x albino all at 2.5yrs old. With 100% fertility and hatch rate?.
I have 2 gravid albino x albino females and one gravid albino x het female at the moment. These are different animals than the ones that i have bred in the past.
I think that this pretty much disproves the infertiliy issues with them. Dont you?.
 
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Perhaps you might be right, you certainly seem to have the best success with olives out of anyone.

Whether its your keeping technique, luck with acquiring robust stock or a combination of both I dont know. But your 100% success certainly isn't shared by others breeding this morph, or perhaps your omitting some info........

Others do breed this morph and quite regularly, but not without the occasional occurrence of previous mentioned issues that "SOME" (that word again) have exhibited. But as said they have worked through the issues and seem to have overcome them. Either way this is off topic and perhaps for another thread.
 
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Not omitting any info at all, 100% truth and fact. And anyone that knows me well enough has seen this with their own eyes. I have nothing to hide.
I do keep and breed all my animals a bit differently to most other people especially olives, wether this has anything to do it i dont know.?
 
Well, as said congrats, perhaps you will sell me some alb and het olives this season lol.......

You still havn't come up with your source of info from your remarks in post #155.......As stated earlier its only fair if your going to make claims you need to back it up with supporting evidence........Thats what you guys expect of us and we have happily complied, it would be appreciated if you would do the same..........
 
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barramundi,-
I did supply the name of "one" of the overseas forums that i have found this info on, in post #158, but it was deleted by one of the mods.
If you have a look at some of them forums im sure you will find it easy enough.
 
I have only found info relating to Irian Jaya Granites being sometimes weak or infertile, some mention of noticeable tail defects in SUPER ZEBRAS (as pictured by JungleFreak) or the occasional morph problem feeder as encountered in numerous carpet clutches, but nothing as specific as you mention..........

Feel free to post it up again or pm if you like........
 
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at least the zebra and super zebra are proven, the carpet paradox isnt

Yeah, if your talking about the darwin paradox, i'm pretty sure it is proven. Just not full public knowledge yet.

,
We (morph breeders) get on here, post our pics and candidly offer our "actual" experiences. Only to be met with baseless and out of context claims usually from the same few......

We are called out to back up our claims and thats what we do. Its only fair that you and those few others do the same.....Like I said level playing field

I want to ask Barramundi, what is the baseless and out of context claim/claims that you refer to?
and what are the claims that you are called out on?
seeing as this is what you say, considering that in the past i have found your answers very contradictory (regarding jags mainly) . I find used car salesmen more beleivable.
 
Cement, surely you have read this thread. But going by your post it would seem you haven't. If not maybe a good idea to revisit the last 3-4 pages especially.

Take note of posts #127, #136, #139, #155. These posts contain misguided and out of context remarks in relation towards Zebras being "ALL" infertile or "ALL" kinked and/or "ALL" weak from people who have never even kept, bred or maintained this morph, let alone seen one in the flesh.........These remarks are solely aimed at destabilising this thread or discrediting Zebras with shaky at best evidence.......

I have no problem with people stating their point of view, but when we do it we (morph breeders) are flamed by at times yourself, TrueBlue and a few others. We constantly back up our claims, whether you choose to believe them or not, I really don't care. It would seem from your "contradictory" comment you choose not to......

All we (morph breeders) expect is if someone chooses to challenge us or call us out on our "actual experiences" they offer some sort of evidence to back their claims. As said thats what you guys expect of us, and time and time again we back up our claims........ Just look at posts #138, #142, #143, #144, #149...........

I think its quite evident these earlier claims are baseless and out of context when you consider the evidence posted by JungleFreak.........
 
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barramundi,-
One of the threads im refering to on one of these forums is specifically on zabra carpets, and a number of people have posted posts about this problem on it.
As said the mods wont let me post the site name, i did and it was deleted. Your a big boy now, its not hard to find. I wasnt even looking for zebra threads and found it.

By the way i didnot say that ALL zebras have this problem but a good percentage of them seem to.
 
whether you choose to believe them or not, I really don't care. It would seem from your "contradictory" comment you choose not to......

How can I beleive anything a person says on an internet forum (of all places), who willingly breeds animals with genetic defects?
"Us morph breeders", thats a nice way to explain away the low level ethics of your business.
If the zebra comes from pure jungle to pure jungle breeding, why has it only occured in Paul Harris collection? Am I supposed to beleive that? Cut the BS bloke. You have no proof that its a pure jungle and I have no proof that its not, BUT...I do find it very difficult to beleive that considering every, (or a massive %) of morph in our aussie native stock occurs in the wild that WOW something like the zebra, granite, and jag only pops up overseas. Oh no thats not true, Stone had a divine clutch pop out here.
And to boot, theres always a physical defect in there somewhere!
Superform pure carpet morphs don't have lethal genes, its not even a consideration on a pure carpet breeders mind when they go to prove something out.....it doesn't happen.
I don't care what you keep in a box or your freezer mate, it the way you sell it that I don't like. Just like the way you were very contradictory about the truth of the jags a few years ago.
Well, you better hang on to your paper bag,.....youll be needing that to sell granites soon eh?
 
How can I beleive anything a person says on an internet forum (of all places), who willingly breeds animals with genetic defects?
"Us morph breeders", thats a nice way to explain away the low level ethics of your business....................

+1
I also find it very ironic when they write about level playing fields.As far as I am concerned the early adopters of Jags are now the early adopters of zebras have a hell of a lot to answer for.
 
Cement, surely you have read this thread. But going by your post it would seem you haven't. If not maybe a good idea to revisit the last 3-4 pages especially.

Take note of posts #127, #136, #139, #155. These posts contain misguided and out of context remarks in relation towards Zebras being "ALL" infertile or "ALL" kinked and/or "ALL" weak from people who have never even kept, bred or maintained this morph, let alone seen one in the flesh.........These remarks are solely aimed at destabilising this thread or discrediting Zebras with shaky at best evidence.......

I have no problem with people stating their point of view, but when we do it we (morph breeders) are flamed by at times yourself, TrueBlue and a few others. We constantly back up our claims, whether you choose to believe them or not, I really don't care. It would seem from your "contradictory" comment you choose not to......

All we (morph breeders) expect is if someone chooses to challenge us or call us out on our "actual experiences" they offer some sort of evidence to back their claims. As said thats what you guys expect of us, and time and time again we back up our claims........ Just look at posts #138, #142, #143, #144, #149...........

I think its quite evident these earlier claims are baseless and out of context when you consider the evidence posted by JungleFreak.........

Well said, I couldn't agree more. I rarely post on this forum anymore for the exact reasons above. Too many uneducated comments from people who probably have never even owned (or seen in the flesh) the animals they're criticising.
 
By the way i didnot say that ALL zebras have this problem but a good percentage of them seem to.

Please refer to post #136

Either way this is just going around in circles.......again......

People can now see our side of the picture and your side of the picture, they are smart enough to make up their own minds as the info and reply's are there for all to read...........
 
Well said, I couldn't agree more. I rarely post on this forum anymore for the exact reasons above. Too many uneducated comments from people who probably have never even owned (or seen in the flesh) the animals they're criticising.

Given that you are referring to recently smuggled lines then I agree about people not having seen them in the flesh here.As far as uneducated comments go I don't agree given that there are a lot of first hand experiences on the subject from the breeders of those lines in the countries where the morph originated from.
 
trueblue - do you agree that albino olives have had some defects in the line? blind, missing eyes etc...this may not be the norm but it is associated with the mutation. If thats the case then why did you get some and why do you breed them? You say this problem has been rectified but there would have been animals produced with this defect along the way (perhaps not in your collection but in others.) So whats the difference with super zebs having kinks? There have been supers produced with out kinks also.

You really seem to have your knickers in a twist over these animals - do you feel the same way about the albino spotteds? They are not a strong line - should people not keep and breed them?
 
Deebo how many albinos defects have occurred ? To how many clutches ? Not many .
in the olive line .
How many zebras have been produced ? To how many defects.?
You see what makes oz snakes special was the way it wasn't molested with or by others,
now the pretty little lollipops are here to taint our once pure lines this is the twister in thy KFC burger cheers
 
cement - I dont really get what you are getting here(see below).....why is so hard to believe that would only occur in his collection? and what does whether a morph is seen in the wild or not got to do with anything? There are several mutations that have randomly popped up in peoples collections over here and given the size of the reptile in europe and the US i am sure there are a lot more animals being bred over there which would increase the chance of something weird popping out. Cant argue the pure jungle bit, just have to either believe him or not.

If the zebra comes from pure jungle to pure jungle breeding, why has it only occured in Paul Harris collection? Am I supposed to beleive that? Cut the BS bloke. You have no proof that its a pure jungle and I have no proof that its not, BUT...I do find it very difficult to beleive that considering every, (or a massive %) of morph in our aussie native stock occurs in the wild that WOW something like the zebra, granite, and jag only pops up overseas.

- - - Updated - - -

gozz - im not sure on the number of olives with defects, or the number of super zebs with defects, and i dont see how any keeper could know those numbers......but why is a few defects in one line ok, but a few in another not ok? and whats the magic number of when it becomes too many. I understand that with mutations there are often side affects, some we can see, others we probably cant and wont even know about it.

I dont know what you mean when you say zebras were "molested" - if you are against crossing sub species that happens without zebras and jags being around.
 
There seem to be thousands of zebra carpets overseas, but there is certainly not many super zebras.
 
barramundi,-
Sorry my bad, thats not what i ment bad wording by my part, when saying that all i ment was that it occurs in all zebra forms, not just supers.

deebo,-
when i got given albino olives a few years back to raise and breed for someone, (thats how i got my animals a percentage of the young), NO i was unaware of any defects at all. Even up untill now the only thing ive heard was that albino x albino wont breed together, (or rarely), as they have a weak gene. Untill recently i had no knowledge of these defects you speak of.
I still dissagree about the weak gene, as i have had no problems with any of the olives that i have bred. I keep to myself alot in this hobby, especially since all the cross breeding and jags appeared. just not interested in any of that crap and dont want anything to do with it, and never will.
From what barramundi has said the people that have had this issue have now put it down to the wrong incubation techniques not genetics.

As for the albino spotteds i dont know much about them, as said i keep to myself alot, ( well except for a small circle of close herp friends only ). I dont keep spotteds so i dont have an interest in them atm.
 
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