Blister Disease

[littlemay]

Hi all,

I created a new thread here because barely anyone responded to my other thread (http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/scale-discolouration-208212/) and i'm getting quite worried - no hard feelings, just desperately in need of some guidance.

So my python has had some issues with his skin recently. Initially he simply had some discoloration on his jaw, this quickly became more inflamed and began to spread. Not long after this, two other areas starting showing similar signs. He has seen a reptile vet and has been placed on 0.14ml of fortum, injected every three days for thirty days.

I have spend the last week trawling all my books and the internet for some idea of what the hell could be going on. After seeing this thread http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/python-bumps-lumps-skin-96385/, i'm starting to think more and more that this could be blister disease.

I have stripped the enclosure of all unnecessary furnishings, F10'd the hell out of everything, replaced the substrate (critters crumble) with newspaper and have removed the large water bowl i had in there previously to keep humidity down. The sides of the glass enclosure have been covered up to increase security. Basking ledge sits consistently at about 32-33 degrees.

The initial lump now seems to be scabbing over. No change in the other two. He's still eating, defecating as usual. No change in behaviour as far as i can see.

Pics of new developments:

This is my first and only snake and so the first time i have ever had to deal with anything like this. I'm terrified i'm doing the wrong thing/not doing the right thing. Really just looking for some guidance or reassurance

 

[Cockney_Red]

What do you want to know, that the vet isn't already treating ?

 

[Leasdraco]

I don't know very much about this disease. How long has he been on the fortum? . Its normally an effective treatment, hopefully after this course of treatment he will look better.

 

[littlemay]

The vet didn't know exactly what it was or what was causing it. We discussed environmental factors, such as high humidity, dirty, damp substrate, cool temperatures, however this did not seem to fit with my husbandry.

Mostly i am wanting to know if anyone else experienced this and how it turned out for them. I feel very unsure and on my own with the whole thing.

 

[Jimie]

have you taken him back to the vet and said its gotten worse if so what did the vet say also is the vet a herp vet if not i would go to a herp vet as my experience normal vets dont always know about pythons

 

[littlemay]

He has seen David Vella twice now, once for the initial jaw issue and then again on Thursday about the other two areas. He has so far had two of the ten injections of the fortum. I know it's early days but i cannot see any difference yet - no idea how rapidly the stuff is supposed to work.

 

[Jimie]

my big md had a big lump on his side it took till the 6th injection to see any changes the other thing is it may take more than 10.
just keep you chin up you'll see changes you sound like you have a good vet

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

I'm not sure what the "blister disease" is that people refer to. Blisters in my mind are caused by bad housekeeping/set up.
Has your vet taken any swabs or attempted to draw any fluid for these "blisters" to get supporting evidence as to the nature of the problem?
Fortum is a broad spectrum antibiotic used to treat bacterial infections.

Has your animal ever shown signs of mites/ticks that have been treated? Do you often allow the animal to free roam outside the house? Do you feed frozen thawed or fresh killed? I only ask these questions as if this is an infection it has to have come from somewhere if its not related to housekeeping. Treating the infection is great but if your animal manages to fight this off with the antibiotics & you do not control the cause of the initial infection then it will surely return. (If it is an infection)

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[littlemay]

I'm not sure what the "blister disease" is that people refer to. Blisters in my mind are caused by bad housekeeping/set up.
Has your vet taken any swabs or attempted to draw any fluid for these "blisters" to get supporting evidence as to the nature of the problem?
Fortum is a broad spectrum antibiotic used to treat bacterial infections.

Has your animal ever shown signs of mites/ticks that have been treated? Do you often allow the animal to free roam outside the house? Do you feed frozen thawed or fresh killed? I only ask these questions as if this is an infection it has to have come from somewhere if its not related to housekeeping. Treating the infection is great but if your animal manages to fight this off with the antibiotics & you do not control the cause of the initial infection then it will surely return. (If it is an infection)

Sorry I can't be of more help.

I appreciate your reply - 'Treating the infection is great but if your animal manages to fight this off with the antibiotics & you do not control the cause of the initial infection then it will surely return'. This is exactly what i am concerned about.

I've gotten 'blister disease' from my general research into the matter - it is not something that David ever mentioned. No swabs fluids were taken, the consensus was to see how the fortum went before attempting to open the the things up.

He has never shown any signs of ticks or mites and David did test for mites the first time i took him in. He stays inside his enclosure most of the time, except for brief handling sessions a couple of times a week. I have always fed frozen thawed.

- - - Updated - - -

my big md had a big lump on his side it took till the 6th injection to see any changes the other thing is it may take more than 10.
just keep you chin up you'll see changes you sound like you have a good vet

Did it clear up in the end?

 

[bigguy]

Blister disease is normally caused as already stated by bad husbandry. To cold, dirty, or wet. You sound like you have addressed the issues by cleaning cage, removing large water bowl and lifting temp. Antibiotics such as fortum is recommended in bad circumstances.

Fortum dose rate is .2ml per kilo, every 2 to 3 days. How much dose your Carpet weigh as a 1ml dose would be for a 5 kilo snake???

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

A small gauge needle can be inserted to attempt to draw anything within the infected area. This is less intrusive than taking blood samples in my opinion. Certainly no need to start cutting the animal open at this stage.
As was mentioned above if your vet is not an authority on reptiles it may be worth looking for a 2nd opinion.

Have sent you a PM with details of where you can get help regardless of location

PM sent

 

[littlemay]

A small gauge needle can be inserted to attempt to draw anything within the infected area. This is less intrusive than taking blood samples in my opinion. Certainly no need to start cutting the animal open at this stage.
As was mentioned above if your vet is not an authority on reptiles it may be worth looking for a 2nd opinion.

Have sent you a PM with details of where you can get help regardless of location

PM sent

Thanks for that. The David is a fairly well regarded reptile vet, so i'm not too worried there. If i don't see any improvement within the week i might call him and discuss the possibility of needling the infected area.

Blister disease is normally caused as already stated by bad husbandry. To cold, dirty, or wet. You sound like you have addressed the issues by cleaning cage, removing large water bowl and lifting temp. Antibiotics such as fortum is recommended in bad circumstances.

Fortum dose rate is .2ml per kilo, every 2 to 3 days. How much dose your Carpet weigh as a 1ml dose would be for a 5 kilo snake???

Apologies, i read the prescription wrong - 0.14ml every 3 days. See this is the thing i don't get, i haven't upped the temps - they have always been at 32-33 degrees. I clean the enclosure on a regular basis with F10 and change the bedding regularly. It was also never particularly humid in there as far as i can tell, yes there was a big water bowl but it wasn't located under any sort of heating. Water spills and feces are cleaned within the day most of the time. It just don't understand how that situation could cause the issue.

 

[littlemay]

UPDATE:

So things aren't looking good. He appeared to be responding to the fortum at first - the blisters were shrinking and scabbing over - but over the last few days he has deteriorated very quickly. More blisters are popping up, the ones that were shrinking began to grow again. They were irritating him so much that he began rubbing himself on enclosure furnishings to the point that he ripped off the scabs and exposed raw flesh.

He's been hospitalised at the vet this morning, they will be taking a biopsy and sending samples off for testing. Feeling so worried and powerless right now.

 

[RedFox]

Hi littlemay, I have being following your threads but I haven't posted before as I haven't any advice to give. This seems to have come on quite quickly. And I'm suprised others haven't seen it before. I hope Snuffles gets well soon and it doesn't end up being something too major.

He is such a gorgeous python. Gammon ranges???

 

[littlemay]

Yeah i can't believe how quickly the problem has developed, started off just as a slight discolouration, now he has open wounds and is visibly weak and unwell

He is a Gammon ranges, he's my first and only python and i feel so guilty that this has happened under my care. I thought i was doing everything right and we can't seem to pinpoint how this started. I'm really hoping the tests show this is treatable and he comes through it ok.

 

[Becceles]

Were parasitic skin worms discounted as the problem?

 

[littlemay]

Were parasitic skin worms discounted as the problem?

It's not something that the vet ever mentioned, so i'm not sure.

I just got a call back from the vet, they completed the biopsy and he's coming out of the anesthesia so i can take him home tomorrow. The results should take about a week to come through. She said worst case scenario is that it's reptile tuberculosis or some form of tumor - in which case treatment is long term and costly.

 

[Becceles]

I only suggest it as I know many wild CTS's are found with lumps from skin worms, so it could be something worth asking about. Although I personally have no experience with them.

 

[RedFox]

I would highly doubt skin worms. CTS are often found with skin worms as they eat frogs. The worms are transferred from frog to the snake. The CTS don't seem all that fazed with them and can be quite badly infested without showing any of the other symptoms littlemay has said snuffles has.

Sending lots of positive thoughts your way, littlemay.

 

[littlemay]

Thanks for the support, redfox

- - - Updated - - -

Snuffie is home from the vet and is looking alright, a bit sluggish but apparently that's to be expected for a couple of days after the anaesthesia. The wounds is looking clean and starting to scab over. Curled up under the heat lamp when he got home and hasn't moved since, poor thing.

Tell you what though, really appreciating that i got a good tax return this year. My savings would be taking a real beating otherwise..