Describing a Morph

[longqi]

Where is the line that says

"This animal is a morph and this one is not a morph"

Examples
Is a partially striped jungle python a true morph?
Is a high black and gold jungle a real morph?
Is mite phase a morph?

It could be an interesting discussion?

 

[thomasssss]

lol has this thought been provoked by a recent thread full of supposed pure morphs ?

imo no those examples dont really class as a morph to me , whilst they are very nice snakes and the trait can in most instances be line bred , thats all it is , a nice line bred trait

 

[longqi]

ok
So where do you draw the line thomass?

Morph= one of various distinct forms of an organism or species.
Phase= a genetic or seasonal variety of an animal's coloration.

 

[Trimeresurus]

lol has this thought been provoked by a recent thread full of supposed pure morphs ?

imo no those examples dont really class as a morph to me , whilst they are very nice snakes and the trait can in most instances be line bred , thats all it is , a nice line bred trait

I agree, all just looked like nice animals but I suppose as lonqi has said, what actually dictates a morph?

Though it seemed like people were posting just about anything in that thread aslong as it was pure.

 

[chimerapro]

morph - definition of morph by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Mutation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A morph and a mutation are very different things I think the term phase should be replaced with morph but this is only when people have an understanding of what the words mean. Mutations are genetic defects that are reproducible where as a morph is any organism exhibiting a trait typical of that organism. The recent pure morph thread was full of both mutations and morphs. I wonder how many people actually understand the difference though.

 

[longqi]

Mutation means has genetically defective genes so I can understand why people want to avoid using it

If we have can have reduced pattern morphs then what is a full stripe??
It is definitely a "distinct form atypical of the species"

 

[thomasssss]

ok
So where do you draw the line thomass?

for me , it becomes a morph when it is considerably different from its "normal" type , things like a continuous line down the back of an otherwise normal looking animal , to me isnt a morph even if the offspring can have it as well , its a trait of that animal just because it looks like mum or dad doesn't make it a morph i mean i look like my dad does that make me a morph

if a breeding of that same animal produced something like a caramel or albino it then becomes a morph in my eyes because it is considerably different from what the animal has originated from , not just minor differences in pattern etc

does that all make sense , i know i dont have a degree in genetics and its probably way off the technical meaning for these words but if thats the case then so be it , people widely accept albinos as a morph whether they are actually a mutation or what ever doesn't really seem to bother most

 

[chimerapro]

What about latrodorsal increased pattern morph :lol:

 

[Flaviruthless]

A 'morph' is a morphological variant - so anything that has a different phenotype to most of the others (sometimes this can include behaviour as well).
A mutation does not have to be negative, mutations can be both advantageous or disadvantageous. Mutations can produce phenotypic differences but they don't always.

 

[andynic07]

I call this one a synthetic intergrade morph. lol. synthetic because it was man made by mixing a diamond and coastal to look similar to an intergrade and yes I am having a laugh.

 

[longqi]

I call this one a synthetic intergrade morph. lol. synthetic because it was man made by mixing a diamond and coastal to look similar to an intergrade and yes I am having a laugh.

Dont laugh too loud andy
That is very different to natural intergrades
You may have a new line there?

 

[andynic07]

Dont laugh too loud andy
That is very different to natural intergrades
You may have a new line there?

A lot of experts with intergrades say they can tell between an intergrade and a cross breed but the only tell tale that I can pick up on with my limited experience is the head.

 

[RSPcrazy]

for me , it becomes a morph when it is considerably different from its "normal" type , things like a continuous line down the back of an otherwise normal looking animal , to me isnt a morph even if the offspring can have it as well , its a trait of that animal just because it looks like mum or dad doesn't make it a morph i mean i look like my dad does that make me a morph

if a breeding of that same animal produced something like a caramel or albino it then becomes a morph in my eyes because it is considerably different from what the animal has originated from , not just minor differences in pattern etc

Last season, I paired 2 normal "wild type" B&W jungles together. Out of 7 offspring, 2 of them came out with full stripes. These 2 look nothing like there parents or there other siblings.

So because they look nothing like there parents and were completely unexpected, would or wouldn't these class as a morph to you?

 

[andynic07]

for me , it becomes a morph when it is considerably different from its "normal" type , things like a continuous line down the back of an otherwise normal looking animal , to me isnt a morph even if the offspring can have it as well , its a trait of that animal just because it looks like mum or dad doesn't make it a morph i mean i look like my dad does that make me a morph

if a breeding of that same animal produced something like a caramel or albino it then becomes a morph in my eyes because it is considerably different from what the animal has originated from , not just minor differences in pattern etc

does that all make sense , i know i dont have a degree in genetics and its probably way off the technical meaning for these words but if thats the case then so be it , people widely accept albinos as a morph whether they are actually a mutation or what ever doesn't really seem to bother most

I see where you are coming from and agree to an extent but would you call an albino from an albino and albino pairing a morph because it only came out like its parents.It is a bit of a tricky subject in my opinion.

 

[longqi]

Last season, I paired 2 normal "wild type" B&W jungles together. Out of 7 offspring, 2 of them came out with full stripes. These 2 look nothing like there parents or there other siblings.

So because they look nothing like there parents and were completely unexpected, would or wouldn't these class as a morph to you?

I would class a full stripe as a morph if it is proven on down the line
but thats were it gets tricky
if a full stripe is a morph then surely a part stripe is also a morph??

So where is the line drawn?

Are albinos morphs or mutations?
if you call them morphs then any progeny that look similar are the same albino morph
but if you get say a proven line on darwin albinos with a bright pink stripe that would be a new morph?

 

[RSPcrazy]

Are albinos morphs or mutations?
if you call them morphs then any progeny that look similar are the same albino morph
but if you get say a proven line on darwin albinos with a bright pink stripe that would be a new morph?

I would consider albinos to be a mutation, not a morph. But that doesn't mean a python with a mutation can't also be a morph. E.g. If a albino has a full stripe, I wouldn't consider it to be a new morph, just a normal striped morph with the albinism mutation.

I hope that made sense. That's how I understand it anyway.

 

[RedFox]

My understanding in layman's terms.
Mutation= defective gene/s. Based on genotypes.
Morph= different phenotypes to the norm. Based on phenotypes.

Albinos have have defective genes that don't produce melanin. Hypermelanistic produce more melanin. T+, axanthic, etc. All mutations with defective genes.

stripes, rp, high yellow, hypo colours, pinstripes, different patterns, all morphs, animals that are phenotypically different to 'wild type' animals. Normally achieved through line breeding, but not always.

An animal can be both a mutation and a morph. For example, an axanthic BHP with an oscillating pattern. Axanthic would be the mutation part and the oscillating pattern would be the mutation.

Or a high white albino Darwin. Albino being the mutation and high white being the morph.

But I'm sure others will have different ideas.