Very cagey and defensive - change in behaviour

[JPandCJ]

Hey guy's,

Apologies if content is a lil pedantic, I've tried reading plenty of similar friends and asking friends, also a bit of info on my Bredli thread.

My 2yr old, supposed female Coastal Everest, had her for about 4 months give or take.

First python, got her from gumtree, didn't look to be in awsom care, that spurred me on a bit to get her.

She was very placid and easy to handle, not bothered by me in her tank, and if anything was a lil shy.

Her tank she came with was pretty bad, only a heat rock a hide and water, no climbing etc, not to mention looked awful. She had been feeding excellent on hopper rats, although I'm thinking she may not have been getting as often as required. Her first shed with me was pretty poor, and in pieces, I do a bit of work at our reptile shop, took her there for a few days, one of the other staff helped get it all off.

Prob about 4 weeks ago, I put together a new enclosure. Before this, I had added climbing sticks and a heat light to the old one. The New one is different shape, still has her old hide pot, sticks and plant, I added some hanging leaves, ditched the heat rock for a mat, and went to a Chipsi substrate from the hay grass type. Then changed the water bowl, to a reptile one water dripper thing.

So no probs first couple of weeks, then her eyes blued over for a shed, I thought this was a little soon, but I'm still learning about shed frequency. She was still as normal for another few days, then woke up to find an almost complete shed in the tank, pretty stoked !

I reached into get it out, and she started to come towards to bite me, kinda first time. Figured a bit testy since the shed, but since that morning, she seems to have remained really highly strung, huge pupils all the time, constant S bend and tounge flicking. So I then figured she's prob pretty hungry, and tried to offer her a weiner rat, she ignored and lunged for my hand out the door, I dropped the rat pulling back, but she then never took the rat, I left it for 24 hours.
I then removed it and tried with another, same story...

In this time, I had been covering the tank with a towel, I'd take the odd peek to check, but always in the constant S.

2 days ago I moved to a new place, tried for 5 days with the old water dish, no difference, and gave her a hopper rat on Sunday, and again yesterday, so surely that eliminates hunger ?

She's in a room alone, soon as you go in the room, goes into an S an flicks.

Anything obvious I seem to be missing ? I know she just needs more time also, but I'm worried she's stressed, and I'd like to try alleviate that.

Thanks for reading my novel.

 

[The_Geeza]

Open.... Using a hook gently push her head away from the neck area and then hook out and handle.... Bet she don't bite once out

 

[albinowoma]

Ok, from what I've read on here, it may be looking to breed or be able to smell the other snake..( did you say you have a Bredle) I missed that point. Wash your hands so she can't smell the other snake, cat or ? Food on your hands. I'd leave it for a week or two and a couple of xtra hides ect in there. You might just have to get bitten, getting her out and hopefully then she'll calm down. If she still bites, cover a hand and ARM with metho, let dry- I take it.. and if/when she bites, they rnt supposed to like the taste. I was also told to have a spray bottle of metho and if she bites n chews squirt a little in her mouth. Personally I don't want to use wet metho. ( I was told that method at the EXPO by someone like - but not - neville). I hope this helps

 

[kitten_pheonix]

Hi JP, not good to hear she hasnt settled down yet for you, I remember your other thread. Ive just bumped up my stimmis tank and shes not overly exited about it either, have you managed to hook her out to see what she is like out of the enclosure at all?
After her shed she may be ready for the next food item up. Some can take a few weeks to settle back down until she puts a bit if size on. If you have bbq tongs try using those to hold the food.

And albinowoma. This is a 2 year old coastal not a breeding age or aspedite, so neither of those would apply to this situation.

 

[JPandCJ]

Thanks for the replies as always !

Hmm yeah it's stressing me knowing she's unhappy.

Hooking her out was deff the next move I was planning, prob going to try Thursday so she's had time to digest.

In relation to the Bredli, they've been separated for 7 days, i took him to my brother's while I was moving, he's yet to come to the new place.

I'm not worried to cop a bite, I just want to alleviate her stress.

Yeah totally agree for next size up, she wouldn't take the 2 weiners offered, but then took the hopper rats, that's why I gave her 2.

She's pretty much in the room on her own atm, but walk towards the front and she starts moving to the door.

Her old tank didn't have front doors...

- - - Updated - - -

When I first got her...

She came in this, different hide though and water bowl

I added this, and some greens..

And then she moved to this...

While still normal self in new enclosure...

And currently since that shed...

 

[kitten_pheonix]

You can try as soon as the bump dissappears, she should be fine to get handle then, did the old enclosure not have a clear front at all? That may be the issue, she might not be used to that movement then.

Oh and some snakes shed quicker than normal after a bad shed/ if they have been put up a food size or a fed more often than normal so she should be fine. Its possibly supporting your not fed often theory.

Coastals are not typically reptile eaters so he wouldnt be causing an issue, not saying they wont eat/attack another reptile its just not as common as with bhps etc.

I just seen your edit, as unapealing as it is try getting a fish tank background (plain black if you like) and wrapping the 3 sides of the tank that way she only has the one side to see out of, those glass tanks are notorious for loosing heat as well. Just looking at that food next to her I would say she is definitly after larger food as it seems to be as round as her (may just be the angle)
Very cute too and nicely set up tank she has plenty to hide in

 

[JPandCJ]

At new house

 

[=bECS=]

You can use listerine mouthwash as opposed to metho to get it to let go if it latches on and won't let go. Not too sure id want to be squirting metho anywhere near any of my reptiles :/
Also antibacterial handwash tends to kill the smell of anything tasty to them

Be patient. I have a young spawn of satan bredli here that wants to kill everything in sight and draws my blood everytime. Its not showing signs of settling anytime soon but still I persist and bleed at every spot clean and enclosure change.
Hes gone from several tags to one or two each time so its progress at least! lol

 

[The_Geeza]

Jmo.... But I have found with heavily decorated enclosures it just makes life more stressy for u and the snake to get out... I would have just kept it basic till fully settled in and handling good... Then started to add a few bits at a time... Only my opinion

 

[JPandCJ]

It's just the very sudden change, you'd almost think it's 2 different animals after the first day I mentioned.

I guess plan of attack is try getting her out this evening or tomorrow and see how she is. Offer the larger weiner rats next feeding, I'll remove some of the decorations, and look into blacking 3 sides of the enclosure, and see how that goes.

Main thing I've noticed, every time she reacts to any movement in the room, soon as I walk in the room, even from the other side, she starts moving aggressively.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Hi JP, not good to hear she hasnt settled down yet for you, I remember your other thread. Ive just bumped up my stimmis tank and shes not overly exited about it either, have you managed to hook her out to see what she is like out of the enclosure at all?
After her shed she may be ready for the next food item up. Some can take a few weeks to settle back down until she puts a bit if size on. If you have bbq tongs try using those to hold the food.

And albinowoma. This is a 2 year old coastal not a breeding age or aspedite, so neither of those would apply to this situation.

Your last statement is not quite correct. It's entirely possible for a MALE 2yo Carpet to be sexually mature, or at least influenced by the seasonal hormone thing. I would be inclined to have the snake sexed by someone who knows what they're doing. If you took the word of the people you purchased it from, it's very possible they were wrong. It's easy to partially probe a male and call it a female. If the prober was not experienced it's an easy mistake to make.

Another point worth considering - you should NEVER take your own animals into places like pet shops, where the potential for disease or parasite (mite) transmission is very high, and if you work in an area where the numbers of animals moving in & out are high, be VERY conscious of hygiene where your own animals are concerned.

Jamie

 

[JPandCJ]

Thanks for that Jamie, deff food for thought.

After getting carpet python guide, I'd had a good read on the sexing and I think your right, it would certainly be a good idea to have the sex confirmed for myself.

 

[Ramy]

A sudden mood change sounds like stress to me. You said you just changed her enclosure, maybe she didn't feel ready to move into a bigger enclosure yet? They really do like to hide, and younger animals often prefer an undersized enclosure to an oversized one.

Things I'd try:
Make sure her basking point is able to keep her up to temp (I aim for basking points around the 32 degree mark)
Check your thermostat against a thermometer (or two) to make sure it's not going over or under your desired temps. Infrared thermometers are great for this, cause you can check the temperature of the python while she's basking.
Get something insulating that you can stick outside the glass near her basking point, cardboard or styrofoam would be enough. This'll give her more privacy, and make sure you're not losing too much warmth through the glass. Make sure it won't heat up to much near that light, or isn't flammable. I'm personally looking at adding an MDF backing to a couple of my larger glass tanks.
Consider using newspaper for a while. I've never met a python who wouldn't hide under the paper if it could. Or if she's outgrown any hides, replace them.
And try to reduce traffic in the room she's in.

Also, if she rejects a feed you should wait atleast a week before offering another. She may just want time to settle down, and poking food in her face mightn't help.

 

[JPandCJ]

How she was when I first went in this morning.

 

[=bECS=]

Was it next to that larger tank before it started getting snappy?

 

[baker]

Honestly all it sounds to me is that the snake is stressed from being taken to a new home, had an enclosure change and then moved again. Black out the sides with some black paper or something to cover them so it feels more secure and then just leave it alone for at least a week or two so that it can get settled and calm down in its new tank. If you have to take it out to clean it or give it fresh water that's fine but don't do any other handling of it. Hopefully after a week it will have calmed down and you will have a happy snake again.
Cheers Cameron

 

[hunterschamps]

Big open glass tank may be very unnerving for the young fella, my murray darling ive had for 3 months now and he is still a bit nervous, but he came from a large breeder which dont handle their snakes very often, only to feed and clean. Be persistant and your patients will pay off.