Reptiles101
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2012
- Messages
- 867
- Reaction score
- 4
Ellann there just gorgeous!, congrats on the beautiful new additions. Mum's also gorgeous too!
The dog thread
- Thread starter Twitch_80
- Start date
Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:
- Status
Ellann there just gorgeous!, congrats on the beautiful new additions. Mum's also gorgeous too!
ingie
Well-Known Member
Cuuuute!!
Congratulations! Some varied colours. Mum is beautiful! I have been researching Dane's for a few months now and want one. What colour was the father?
Ellannn
Well-Known Member
Thank you
Father is a harlequin Great Dane as well but he was born from a blue mother so I'm guessing that's where the merls colouring has come from! They are such beautiful dogs! They are so tiny when they are born compared to how big they get! I just love the smell of puppies haha.
Flaviruthless
Very Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,203
- Reaction score
- 0
Congratulations on the puppies I hope they all grow up strong and healthy for you. Will you be keeping any?
I hope they all grow up strong and healthy for you. Will you be keeping any?
vampstorso
Very Well-Known Member
All settled in, currently snoring on the bed between my boyfriend and I!
Ellannn
Well-Known Member
Congratulations on the puppies
Thankyou you
I wish we could keep them all haha!
But no, we already have 3 Great Danes and a cattle dog. Even though we live on land and have the space it's hard to spend one on one quality time with them one on one as it is.
ingie
Well-Known Member
Thank you
Merle gene does not come from blue. Statistically speaking you always get merle and double merle, from breeding harli to harli. Homozygous harlequin is lethal/stillborn, and homozygous (double) merle is sometimes lethal, as well as making deaf and or blind puppies. Double merle harlequins are nearly all white or all white, and are usually deaf and or blind, with other issues like auto immune problems and skin problems.
My Zeke is a double merle from a backyard breeder, and luckily has all his sight and hearing, but he does have skin issues. The safest way to breed harli puppies is to cross them to a mantle, as you don't get any lethal combinations or compromised health.
Last edited:
Is it safe to breed Merle to Harli? I am a bit confused over these lethal genetics in the Danes. Merle and Harli are my favourite colours.
ingie
Well-Known Member
You shouldn't breed harli to harli, merle to harli or merle to merle. They all produce stillborn and compromised puppies. A lot of registered breeders do it though and PTS the ones that don't work out. I am not sure why, because you can also produce good harlequins from breeding harli to mantle, black or blue. I think because they can see the markings of both parents, and they know that the good harli's they get will be of the same show quality for markings?
This is a list of issues that are common for double merle and double merle harli danes:
1. Congenital CATARACTS associated with micropthalmia. Blinding disorder.
2. Persistent papillary membrane. Can be blinding, is disfiguring eye defect.
3. Tapetal hypoplasia. Lack of reflective lens. Can cause night blindness.
4. Convergent strabismus. Cross-eyed – affects vision.
5. Enopthalmia – recessed eyes – can lead to chronic infection.
6. Micropthalmia – tiny eyeballs – often lead to total blindness and most have very poor sight from the start. Often the eyeball must be removed.
7. Medial canthal syndrome – when (commonly) associated with 5 and/or 6 – leads to chronic infection and blindness.
8. Heterochrommia iridis/hypochromia iridis – lack of iris pigment – causes blue eyes and is associated with deafness and can be associated with other eye defects in predominately white dogs.
9. Colomboma(ta). “Notched” irises and other eye structures which fail to develop properly and close on the suture lines due to the action of the Merle gene. Leads to various defects of vision and even collapse of the eye structure.
10. Merle deafness – develops in the first month of life and is permanent and often debilitating to proper social development of the dog. Usually bilateral; testable by no later than 6 weeks; associated often with other less apparent defects. Euthanasia is recommended.
11. Piebald deafness – is present normally by 4-8 weeks and bilateral deafness can only be objectively confirmed by a BAER test. When bilateral, euthanasia is recommended.
12. Demodicosis. Immune-mediated hair follicle mange. Increased incidence is reported in harl Danes and especially white and merle pups.
13. Atopic dermatitis. Inherited allergies. Increased incidence is reported in harl Danes and especially white and merle pups.
14. Skin cancer. Increased incidence is reported in harl Danes and especially white and lightly marked harl and merlikin pups due to lack of protecting pigment (melanin) from UV (sunray) exposure. Sunburn also occurs often in dogs lacking pigment and this can lead to tumors/cancer.
15. Follicular dysplasia. A hair coat problem of broken and dull hairs and “pimply” infection with a high incidence in white coated (and other dilute colored dogs).
16. Photo-induced epilepsy. Seizure activity reported in white (double merle) Danes thought to be associated with subtle eye structure defects.
17. Sterility and reduced fertility. Increased incidence reported in some mostly white pups.
18. Multiple congenital defects. White pups may have a variety of organ defects which arise only as they grow and first may only be seen (if seen when young at all) as a (i.e., “runt”) failure to thrive and keep up with the size, weight and activity level of the other pups, but later results in multiple health problems for the dog. Bear in mind that about 50% of the MM=double merle whites do not survive to birth.
19. Social instability and inadequacy. Dogs with sensory defects commonly are unable to interact with their own species as well as with humans with full and satisfactory success. Such pups may well be identified, isolated and treated as different right from the start by the dam and other littermates. Many develop poorly, fail to adapt and have multiple problems coping with normal daily activities; they are often described as “shy” or “spooky” and the bite incidence for such animals is high. Some are picked on, most have trouble with normal events, especially those involving more than the immediate family (the vet, boarding, etc.), while others need another pet constantly with them to cope with the world at large and suffer tremendously when this animal is not near them. Death by automobile is a common end for such dogs, but most are simply given up to rescue when they become too huge a burden for the family who bought them as a pup. Many will never be placed due to their poor social skills. Of course there are success stories – but you cannot plan on being one of them necessarily.
- - - Updated - - -
Crosby was the only harli in his harli to harli litter, the rest were black, and one was either a very lightly spotted harli or a double merle harli, who lives up the road from me. Makes me wonder how many were still born. One came out with tiny eyes in normal sized sockets, that were blind
This is Crosby wanting to eat the council men, this morning. Handsome fellow.
- - - Updated - - -
I am sure Ellannn didn't know about the lethals and nasty side of hari to harli matings though. Sorry if this upset you. Looks like you may have one all white puppy though, (harli double merle). He/she will most likely be deaf and possibly blind, among other things
This is a list of issues that are common for double merle and double merle harli danes:
1. Congenital CATARACTS associated with micropthalmia. Blinding disorder.
2. Persistent papillary membrane. Can be blinding, is disfiguring eye defect.
3. Tapetal hypoplasia. Lack of reflective lens. Can cause night blindness.
4. Convergent strabismus. Cross-eyed – affects vision.
5. Enopthalmia – recessed eyes – can lead to chronic infection.
6. Micropthalmia – tiny eyeballs – often lead to total blindness and most have very poor sight from the start. Often the eyeball must be removed.
7. Medial canthal syndrome – when (commonly) associated with 5 and/or 6 – leads to chronic infection and blindness.
8. Heterochrommia iridis/hypochromia iridis – lack of iris pigment – causes blue eyes and is associated with deafness and can be associated with other eye defects in predominately white dogs.
9. Colomboma(ta). “Notched” irises and other eye structures which fail to develop properly and close on the suture lines due to the action of the Merle gene. Leads to various defects of vision and even collapse of the eye structure.
10. Merle deafness – develops in the first month of life and is permanent and often debilitating to proper social development of the dog. Usually bilateral; testable by no later than 6 weeks; associated often with other less apparent defects. Euthanasia is recommended.
11. Piebald deafness – is present normally by 4-8 weeks and bilateral deafness can only be objectively confirmed by a BAER test. When bilateral, euthanasia is recommended.
12. Demodicosis. Immune-mediated hair follicle mange. Increased incidence is reported in harl Danes and especially white and merle pups.
13. Atopic dermatitis. Inherited allergies. Increased incidence is reported in harl Danes and especially white and merle pups.
14. Skin cancer. Increased incidence is reported in harl Danes and especially white and lightly marked harl and merlikin pups due to lack of protecting pigment (melanin) from UV (sunray) exposure. Sunburn also occurs often in dogs lacking pigment and this can lead to tumors/cancer.
15. Follicular dysplasia. A hair coat problem of broken and dull hairs and “pimply” infection with a high incidence in white coated (and other dilute colored dogs).
16. Photo-induced epilepsy. Seizure activity reported in white (double merle) Danes thought to be associated with subtle eye structure defects.
17. Sterility and reduced fertility. Increased incidence reported in some mostly white pups.
18. Multiple congenital defects. White pups may have a variety of organ defects which arise only as they grow and first may only be seen (if seen when young at all) as a (i.e., “runt”) failure to thrive and keep up with the size, weight and activity level of the other pups, but later results in multiple health problems for the dog. Bear in mind that about 50% of the MM=double merle whites do not survive to birth.
19. Social instability and inadequacy. Dogs with sensory defects commonly are unable to interact with their own species as well as with humans with full and satisfactory success. Such pups may well be identified, isolated and treated as different right from the start by the dam and other littermates. Many develop poorly, fail to adapt and have multiple problems coping with normal daily activities; they are often described as “shy” or “spooky” and the bite incidence for such animals is high. Some are picked on, most have trouble with normal events, especially those involving more than the immediate family (the vet, boarding, etc.), while others need another pet constantly with them to cope with the world at large and suffer tremendously when this animal is not near them. Death by automobile is a common end for such dogs, but most are simply given up to rescue when they become too huge a burden for the family who bought them as a pup. Many will never be placed due to their poor social skills. Of course there are success stories – but you cannot plan on being one of them necessarily.
- - - Updated - - -
Crosby was the only harli in his harli to harli litter, the rest were black, and one was either a very lightly spotted harli or a double merle harli, who lives up the road from me. Makes me wonder how many were still born. One came out with tiny eyes in normal sized sockets, that were blind
This is Crosby wanting to eat the council men, this morning.
Handsome fellow.
- - - Updated - - -
I am sure Ellannn didn't know about the lethals and nasty side of hari to harli matings though. Sorry if this upset you. Looks like you may have one all white puppy though, (harli double merle). He/she will most likely be deaf and possibly blind, among other things
Last edited:
Ellannn
Well-Known Member
There won't be anymore puppies lol. We didn't really plan for these puppies at all. We never intended on breeding our dogs but when we got evacuated the first time we had fires, the neighbour thought he was doing us a favour by putting our 3 Great Danes in his horse float and driving them to safety but he didn't know that our female (that was separated) was on heat. The neighbour said he saw our 11 year old Great Dane and our female lock. But we didn't think it was possible because he can barely walk as it is. (bless his old soul)
So it's not like we are backyard breeders trying to make money and mum dog got desexed during her c section as well.
So no more unexpected puppies anymore.
Fingers crossed that the puppies are going to be ok. The only harliquin in the litter is the biggest and fattest one.
We are taking turns in putting them on nipples and bottles and rotating them. It's going to be a long week.
Thanks for clearing a lot of that up ingie. You have some beautiful dogs. Just trying to convince my wife right now to get a Dane,as we have 2 other dogs and she is not too keen
Ellannn
Well-Known Member
IZE]
I am sure Ellannn didn't know about the lethals and nasty side of hari to harli matings though. Sorry if this upset you. Looks like you may have one all white puppy though, (harli double merle). He/she will most likely be deaf and possibly blind, among other things
No no we don't have an all white puppy. All 3 of the white puppies have markings on them.
ingie
Well-Known Member
What a silly neighbour! At least he saved your dogs though. I just put up the info in case anyone else was overcome by the cuteness of your puppies and decided to have a go I only started looking into it because I was noticing some issues in both of the litters my puppies came from, and I decided I wanted to be a breeder of great danes in the future, with good ethics. One of mine was from a BYB, and the other from a registered breeder. The registered breeder turned out to have no morals as he was doing everything knowingly, because he wanted money, and my very expensive puppy has ectropion (a dominant heritable eye disorder that the mum and grandpa have), food and skin allergies and an aggressive temperament, which his siblings share. I didn't know what I was looking at when I looked at the parents, but I know better for the fiture. This guy also forged my signature on a co ownership contract and was harassing me, so I had to move house. That is another story LOL.
- - - Updated - - -
- - - Updated - - -
They really are an amazing dog! Just be sure that when you go to choose a breeder, put a lot of thought into what breeder and puppy you choose. Make sure neither of the parents have droopy eyes with a prominent 3rd eyelid, and make sure both parents are really relaxed around other dogs and able to be taken in public easily. Then when you pick your puppy, make sure it isn't already a little horror who can't be around other dogs lol. I should have known about Crosby, as even when I took him home at 8 weeks he would bark and attack my 16 week old dane, and I had to keep them separately for ages and get them very slowly used to each other. I can't take Crosby in public any more, as no amount of socialization and training gets him to a point where I can trust him around other dogs, even with a muzzle. No one would break into my yard, that's for sure! Zeke, on the other hand, is as a dane should be. A gentle giant who plays very well with other dogs, and has never had the inclination to be even slightly aggressive towards people or dogs.
They have such different personalities. Zeke will only softly bark and whine to get my attention, but never makes a peep at any sounds like a "guard dog", never barks at other dogs or people. He is a gentle giant. Crosby will never bark or whine to get attention, he just waits patiently and then licks me to death, but he will bark (ferociously) at any dog or person or strange noise, and is on constant alert to guard.
I only started looking into it because I was noticing some issues in both of the litters my puppies came from, and I decided I wanted to be a breeder of great danes in the future, with good ethics. One of mine was from a BYB, and the other from a registered breeder. The registered breeder turned out to have no morals as he was doing everything knowingly, because he wanted money, and my very expensive puppy has ectropion (a dominant heritable eye disorder that the mum and grandpa have), food and skin allergies and an aggressive temperament, which his siblings share. I didn't know what I was looking at when I looked at the parents, but I know better for the fiture. This guy also forged my signature on a co ownership contract and was harassing me, so I had to move house. That is another story LOL.- - - Updated - - -
They can still have those issues if they are only very lightly marked
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks for clearing a lot of that up ingie. You have some beautiful dogs. Just trying to convince my wife right now to get a Dane,as we have 2 other dogs and she is not too keen
They really are an amazing dog! Just be sure that when you go to choose a breeder, put a lot of thought into what breeder and puppy you choose. Make sure neither of the parents have droopy eyes with a prominent 3rd eyelid, and make sure both parents are really relaxed around other dogs and able to be taken in public easily. Then when you pick your puppy, make sure it isn't already a little horror who can't be around other dogs lol. I should have known about Crosby, as even when I took him home at 8 weeks he would bark and attack my 16 week old dane, and I had to keep them separately for ages and get them very slowly used to each other. I can't take Crosby in public any more, as no amount of socialization and training gets him to a point where I can trust him around other dogs, even with a muzzle. No one would break into my yard, that's for sure! Zeke, on the other hand, is as a dane should be. A gentle giant who plays very well with other dogs, and has never had the inclination to be even slightly aggressive towards people or dogs.
They have such different personalities. Zeke will only softly bark and whine to get my attention, but never makes a peep at any sounds like a "guard dog", never barks at other dogs or people. He is a gentle giant. Crosby will never bark or whine to get attention, he just waits patiently and then licks me to death, but he will bark (ferociously) at any dog or person or strange noise, and is on constant alert to guard.
Last edited:
Ellannn
Well-Known Member
What a silly neighbour! At least he saved your dogs though. I just put up the info in case anyone else was overcome by the cuteness of your puppies and decided to have a go
- - - Updated - - -
They can still have those issues if they are only very lightly marked
I have never met an aggressive Great Dane in my life! That's so strange. I have heard that registered breeders also breed relatives to relatives as well to keep the blood lines pure. There are so many dodgy people out there. You really don't know what you are buying and it sucks because these people are knowingly ripping innocent people off.
We have had Great Danes since I was 2 years old I'm now 23. But we have never bred them an never really intended to. We have always been consistent and safe when our female would come on heat and always separate her. We have never had an accident until this year. they have purely been for companionship. We luckily have never had any problems with ours at all! age is getting the best of our old boy unfortunately though. He still thinks he is a pup and gets frustrated because he can't play with the others as much because he forgets that he is sore and old. But that has been our only problem.
They are such beautiful dogs.
This is big Kev, our 11 year old male.
ingie
Well-Known Member
Yes it was quite a shock to me also, when Crosby was so different to what I knew of danes. My family had danes since before I was born, and they have always been my perfect idea of a dog. I love Crosby all the same though. I just have to be careful and not put him in any situations where things have the chance to go bad. He is a perfect pet at the home though, and that is the most important thing. Very loyal and loving to his family Your old fellow is gorgeous
I had Crosby desexed because his breeder wanted to use him as a stud, and I didn't want to be involved with his dodgy ethics. Even though the co ownership contract was forged, I could not have it revoked, because Dogs QLD don't investigate and choose sides, and their default position is with the breeder. Meaning that if I had the contract revoked, he could have been placed solely in the breeder's name, despite me paying $3000 for him. On the contract it says that he, the breeder, has sole ownership of all the breeding and showing rights, and 100% ownership of all collected semen, while I have 100% of all the vet responsibilities and feeding and expenses. When I had Crosby desexed, the thought crossed my mind to post the breeder his man bits with a note saying "I had Crosby collected for you!". Haha I am glad I didn't go through with that!
Your old fellow is gorgeous I had Crosby desexed because his breeder wanted to use him as a stud, and I didn't want to be involved with his dodgy ethics. Even though the co ownership contract was forged, I could not have it revoked, because Dogs QLD don't investigate and choose sides, and their default position is with the breeder. Meaning that if I had the contract revoked, he could have been placed solely in the breeder's name, despite me paying $3000 for him. On the contract it says that he, the breeder, has sole ownership of all the breeding and showing rights, and 100% ownership of all collected semen, while I have 100% of all the vet responsibilities and feeding and expenses. When I had Crosby desexed, the thought crossed my mind to post the breeder his man bits with a note saying "I had Crosby collected for you!". Haha I am glad I didn't go through with that!
Last edited:
I
imported_Varanus
Guest
![wara mo 003 [1600x1200].jpg](https://cdn.imagearchive.com/aussiepythons/data/attachments/182/182012-4b82f9d40658d76f50e5a31d8721206f.jpg)
![wara mo 005 [1600x1200].jpg](https://cdn.imagearchive.com/aussiepythons/data/attachments/182/182013-d3e43ce1db80240dbd80881faf14218f.jpg)
![wara mo 007 [1600x1200].jpg](https://cdn.imagearchive.com/aussiepythons/data/attachments/182/182014-50f54aae447422b746e94900979621a8.jpg)
Rochelle11
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2013
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
Coops!
My Australian Shepherd Cooper
My Australian Shepherd Cooper
- Status
