How do you know if a snake is stressed

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Tiffany

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Hi we have a new woma hatchling and she is 2 months old. My question is how do you kno if a snake is stressed??
Our spotted pythons are quite hardy and I got them as adults so they don't stress very much (I stress more then they do)
With hatchlings I have been told that they can stress and this could be life threatening but that you can't see it till it is too late.
If these sound like newbi questions I am sorry but as I have said before this is our 1st hatchling.
 
if they are stressed they won't eat. in saying that stress is only one of many reasons for not eating
 
If you really do think she's stressed, put a towel or something over the glass door or put her in a tube
 
"Stress" is usually transient and related to change, it is rarely "life threatening" and you can always see it before it's "too late." As has already beed said, lack of interest in food is the most obvious symptom of stress, and I don't think hatchies are any more susceptible to "stress" than are adults. Relax and enjoy your animal.

Jamie
 
thanks everyone. She is still eating like a champ and hasn't slowed down at all. We are thinking of moving into a bigger enclosure with lots of hides as the 5lt click clack she is in (in our opinion) is getting too small as she is always trying to get out and explore. the measurements of the tank we want to move her into is 51cm high, 59cm wide and 44cm deep. She measures about 52cm long. Is it too soon to move her or should we wait a bit longer. When we moved her to the bigger click clack we fed her on the same day and she had no problem adapting at all. I'm thinking if we do that again with the bigger enclosure she should be fine aswel. We are looking at ways to drop the height like putting a clear lid approx the same size as the tank on legs and this should help drop the area we will hav to heat. Has anyone tried this at all and do
 
Personally I leave all my hatchlings in small tubs until they are at least yearlings. I switch them from 5L to 15L at about 6 months if they are eating and growing well. Once they are yearlings I move them to a 20-50L tub depending on species.

It's your snake so you'll have to work out what you think she is ready for but at two months old I would move her from the 5L to the next size up, probably 10-15L. The one most common thing to cause stress is too big an enclosure. Even if they have enough hides they may not want to move around.

Like I said though it's up to you and if you do move her and find she is stressed ie, stops eating, stays in one hide all the time, then you can always move her back.
 
Stressed snakes usually strike! That's probably the best indicator especially if they are normally placid! I agree with the"not eating" comment also! I'm not a big believer in big enclosures stressing snakes out. What do they do in the wild then? They don't stay in a bucket all the time that's for sure! If the enclosure is too open then yeah they will feel vulnerable out in the open. Lots of snakes spend a lot of time in there hides, doesn't automatically mean they are stressed. Warm hides, cool hides, something to climb on, clean water, not getting handled 5 times a day and not living in there own poo and they are fine! Obviously the younger the snake the more places to hide it needs! My last hatchies spent 4 days a week in hatchy racks then 3 days a week in a 200 litre enclosure all together every week for the first 4 months. They only got fed in the hatchy racks on the first day. It was quite obvious they preferred the big enclosure. They normally spent half the day in the warm hide and then move around exploring the enclosure or in the cool hides. They climbed branches a lot also especially at night. They all had good muscle tone, ate like champions and were very placid. They were actually more placid in the big enclosure! No sign of stress at all!
I probably should mention that I wouldn't put adult snakes together like this except at breeding time just so there's no confusion here!
Personally I think some of the biggest causes of stress are handling too much, especially a new snake and lack of hides followed by poor hygiene and wrong temps (including variation) and over feeding!
That's just my experience and opinion anyway! Enjoy your critters!
 
I think I would have to disagree with a lot of this...

Stressed snakes usually strike! That's probably the best indicator especially if they are normally placid! I agree with the"not eating" comment also! I'm not a big believer in big enclosures stressing snakes out. What do they do in the wild then? They don't stay in a bucket all the time that's for sure! If the enclosure is too open then yeah they will feel vulnerable out in the open. Lots of snakes spend a lot of time in there hides, doesn't automatically mean they are stressed. Warm hides, cool hides, something to climb on, clean water, not getting handled 5 times a day and not living in there own poo and they are fine! Obviously the younger the snake the more places to hide it needs! My last hatchies spent 4 days a week in hatchy racks then 3 days a week in a 200 litre enclosure all together every week for the first 4 months. They only got fed in the hatchy racks on the first day. It was quite obvious they preferred the big enclosure. They normally spent half the day in the warm hide and then move around exploring the enclosure or in the cool hides. They climbed branches a lot also especially at night. They all had good muscle tone, ate like champions and were very placid. They were actually more placid in the big enclosure! No sign of stress at all!
I probably should mention that I wouldn't put adult snakes together like this except at breeding time just so there's no confusion here!
Personally I think some of the biggest causes of stress are handling too much, especially a new snake and lack of hides followed by poor hygiene and wrong temps (including variation) and over feeding!
That's just my experience and opinion anyway! Enjoy your critters!

Tiffany your woma should be fine. It can't be all that stressed if it is still eating. Enjoy your little one.
 
I live with Tiffany (read above posts), ... I'll try to clarify the things we have done and want to do and how the Woma has reacted. 1st off, we've been told, & read all sorts of stories about stressing snakes, & some put the fear of God into you, that DONT TOUCH, DONT MOVE, keep in opaque container, DONT do this dont do that, .... stress can be an invisible killer, ... now in saying all that, here is what we see and percieve with our 2mth old hatchling Woma, I will not discuss the other 2 Spotted Pythons we have 13yr old (owned for 2yrs / 3yr (owned for 2-1/2yr) they are fine, this is the 1st hatchling we have, and the advice read, or recieved is so different, ... we know also that ""IF"" stressed, (won't eat or gets snappy, ?????? we can always go back a step to where she was happy.

The Woma was sold to us in a 2.5lt container, we were told not to remove her to a bigger container for 6mths, after 1 week we did move her to a 5lt container, .. a bit more room. Woma is 50cm long and 25mm wide ??? & growing, ...
Currently being fed 2 pinkie mice, then 3, then 2, then 3, about 4 days apart for each feed, ... we are thinking of adding a fuzzy rat every 3rd feed, ... so 1 fuzzy rat, (4days) then 3 pinkie mice, (then 4days) 2 pinkie mice, (4days), fuzzy rat, .... etc

She has ALWAYS seemed really ALERT and a GREAT EATER, lots of tongue flicking and gliding through and on the objects in her container. ((Paper Towel, water dish, tunnel (imitation hollow branch), toilet roll for her hide.)), ..... She (I use the word "SEEMS" because it certainly looks like it), SUPER Inquisitive to explore and smell, she knows her 2 owners and will come out of her container to greet us and when handled is very placid but exploratory, (she didn't like the hairs on my arms at 1st, but now crawls up and around,)(she is only 'just' learning to use her muscle and tail to hold on).

The temp within her container is maintained at anywhere between 29? - 33? heat side via heat mat under a tile which her container sits on, another tile supports the cool side which is around 25? - 29? ... we DO keep an eye on the temps and move her container as needed to try to maintain as even a temp as we can.
WE NOW HAVE A THERMOSTAT TO HOPEFULLY BETTER REGULATE THE TEMP.
The temps in Ipswich can be extremes, VERY HOT DAYS 25 - 38Cel,(Summer inside house), COOL -1 to 10cel at night in Winter)

The Woma will nudge her 'hide' (toilet roll) to wherever she likes it, and will also spend time draped over her log or spread out @ front of the container or draped around her water dish. And she has done this consistently over the 2 months we've had her. We are able to walk past her constantly without her getting startled, occasionally she'll take some interest & look but does not seem concerned at all.

We took her out & introduced her to the lawn yesterday, she was unsure of the grass, but knew our hands were always around for her to come to, she soon was sliding across the grass with tongue flicks but "seemed" to settle quite quickly during the 5 minutes we had her on the grass with us.

Now for further question or advice???
The 'FINAL' tank we want her in is glass 51cm H X 59 W X 44 D. .... BUT due to seeing a lot of posts about the big scary world, we have an opaque 37lt tub 22cm H X 57 W X 40 D, .... this fits perfect into the Glass enclosure with the same dimensions except we are keeping the tub height at 8inches, we are able to place the REGULATED heat mat under tile, under the new container to control heat, I CAN also?? fit 'either' a ceramic or heat light in the ceiling of the glass tank to provide extra heat if required, this will have to heat 'through' the opaque plastic lid of the container.

We have 3 hides in place ( a fake rock hide, a flower pot base (tight and low), and a couple of toilet rolls squished down @ ends or tunnels) also some fake foliage stuck to back wall of container, 2 tunnel fake logs, a rock water dish, and a small tree branch stretched across the container. The base will be newspaper.
We are planning on putting in a small fake grass area for her as well.
((( IF this is too much, we can introduce objects over time)))

We placed the Woma into this NEW environment to test her reaction for approx 10min, .. 'she' "seemed" to love it, cautiously exploring the bigger hide, but going all the way in, climbing and using the branch, tongue flicking and checking EVERYTHING, .... she saw 'us' and came to say hi, then went back to exploring, she was calm and inquisitive to all her new surrounds, ... she checked everything out and seemed quite calm in doing it unhurriedly, ..... and as it was night when we did this, and she is very active at night, so we did not think anything unusual about her behavior. She seems to LOVE exploring and when placed back into her 5lt she will usually go have a little drink and either lay or move around her own container re-exploring her own container.

Question is this, CAN WE move her to the bigger container so she can feel stimulated and also have the privacy of multiple hides. I look at her size and she seems to be "cooped up" ... I KNOW they need and are a confined space reptile, & this is how they live, this is why I just want to give her more space but low roof 8", so her inquisitive mind can be satisfied, she has room to maneuver, objects to climb and move around, helping to build muscle, but plenty of 'tight' hides and objects to keep her stimulated and happy.

We have been told the "GLASS" enclosures can be very dangerous to hatchlings and juveniles because of the heat loss through glass and it can lose temperatures quickly because it is glass. (This Glass tank was our "now" 3yr old, Spotted Pythons home for th time we have had her, she lived on top of newspaper a hide on top of a tile which had a heat mat under, also some climbing and other objects within.)
I have a piece of timber sheeting that I can place in the bottom of the glass tank to keep everything up of the glass and can also put "walls" partly up the side of the glass to help maintain privacy and heat within the glass tank, ... but I just thought the idea of the plastic tub can (with its lid) can better control the temps to keep the Woma happy.

as said, (Kohanna the Woma) 'seems' extremely happy with her environments, handling, feeds, and seems super inquisitive to anything new. she seems to like the 'cuddles' (10min??) and will want to come back out, (not that we do) to continue exploring. She seems to want to explore the big wide world, ....

After reading all this, .... does it seem we are on the right track, can we do what we want to do, providing we can regulate the heat correctly and as long as she keeps eating, shedding correctly, & is happy to be held.

Advice is appreciated, & I realise breeders NEED to keep their snakes housed & what i consider confined, ... I personally like to have my snakes on show, visible and I have them as pets. To see snakes kept in a small tub with just newspaper and a water bowl, reminds me of caged chickens & I understand the reasons behind this, ... but this is my opinion only.
I also AGREE the need to be careful of creating a 'wild' environment that can be overwhelming and frightening to a young snake. We know of couple of friends who 1 off kept their woma in the tubs and moved bigger as req, and the other just placed it in a 600 x 350 enclosure and they are all doing fine, ....

so just trying to get best advice and ?? we can, ....

Appreciated help.
Cheers Yowie.
 
Best advice would be to put her in whatever enclosure you want. She is your snake after all and no one is going to stop you doing what you want.

Enclosure aside I would up her food sizes away from pinky mice. There isn't really any point feeding her pinky mice, even when she was first hatched. I would be moving her through all the sizes of mice, probably hoppers straight away, and then moving her up to rats (skipping pinkies) as soon as possible.
 
Hey thanks everyone for the advice. Yowie was wrong and we are feeding pinkie rats and going up to fuzzies rats very soon. Gotta finish the pinkies first. We have decided to move her to the bigger enclosure in a couple of days as we are planning on moving and feeding her at the same time in the new tank.
We just wanted some ideas as it is our first hatchie and was uncertain of how, what, when and where. Our other 2 snakes are very happy and content and we hav never had a problem with them so gonna just do what we think is right and see how she goes. She is a beautiful girl and we are gonna enjoy watching her grow. I can't see any problem arising but if it does it just means we go back a step and keep trying. Thanks again everyone
 
Snakes are pretty hardy little things give them more credit. As long as you get the husbandry basics right it's pretty hard to go wrong. Handle as much as you want and enjoy it.
 
" she is always trying to get out and explore" that is normal behaviour for a snake and doesn't indicate
that she requires a bigger enclosure.
 
" she is always trying to get out and explore" that is normal behaviour for a snake and doesn't indicate
that she requires a bigger enclosure.

Yup, some snakes will always be trying to get out no matter how big their tank is.
 
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