Where do you get cheap co2 from?

[DarwinBrianT]

I'd like to find out what is the best way to buy co2?

And if there is an admin out there, can we have a sub forum for breeding rats as rats are a big part of keeping snakes it makes sense to me to have one? Just asking.

Cheers Brian

 

[saximus]

Soda Stream is the easiest to obtain. Or are you talking about more industrial size applications?

 

[Rogue5861]

I just use a sodastream, picked up the unit for free and brough a bottle to suit. Im not sure about bigger bottles of co2 but know some people use scuba tanks for the same thing.


Rick

 

[Stuart]

And if there is an admin out there, can we have a sub forum for breeding rats as rats are a big part of keeping snakes it makes sense to me to have one? Just asking.

Cheers Brian

Hey Brian,

You can use the Other Animals forum as that should cover what you need.

Other Animals - Aussie Pythons & Snakes

 

[mikey_mike]

I'd be interested to know about costs of co2 tanks and regulators as well as my rats seem briefly distressed by their soda stream.

 

[andynic07]

I received my CO2 tank and regulator from a hospital for free but not sure if they usually give them away. They are used for all sorts of applications in a hospital including inflating body cavities for keyhole surgery.

 

[sd1981]

I used to use a CO2 bottle and reg setup for my home brew as well as my rat culling requirements... I stopped breeding rats, so now its just for home brew woohoo!!!

 

[DarwinBrianT]

Hey Brian,

You can use the Other Animals forum as that should cover what you need.

Other Animals - Aussie Pythons & Snakes

Thanks, yeah I did see that but it would be great to have all the rat info in the one easy to find place.
All good, I just thought I'd put it out there.

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I used to use a CO2 bottle and reg setup for my home brew as well as my rat culling requirements... I stopped breeding rats, so now its just for home brew woohoo!!!

Can I ask how much a CO2 bottle and reg setup for home brew cost you?
Cheers

 

[sd1981]

I bought it a few years ago, I paid around $220 for it I think... Try eBay as there are quite a few second hand ones floating around... you could grab a bargain...

 

[styxxpython]

i use keg king $50 refill for 6kg bottle, bottle brought from ebay or can you swap bottles at their store. this lasts me for 3 months.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I'd be interested to know about costs of co2 tanks and regulators as well as my rats seem briefly distressed by their soda stream.

Soda Stream is CO2. Regardless of how you gas them with CO2, or the source you use, they will be briefly very distressed by the lack of oxygen until they become unconscious. I HATE killing rats... but it's a sad necessity I'm afraid...

Jamie

 

[DarwinBrianT]

Soda Stream is the easiest to obtain. Or are you talking about more industrial size applications?

I should of said, I have 3 female rats on the go so not that big of a set up.

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I received my CO2 tank and regulator from a hospital for free but not sure if they usually give them away. They are used for all sorts of applications in a hospital including inflating body cavities for keyhole surgery.

That's awesome, very nice set up!

 

[andynic07]

I am thinking of getting out of breeding rats, I lost a few with the heat wave so culled them all until after summer but then Wokka suggested buying in bulk from Rodent Farm so I am giving that a go for a while. Would you be interested in my setup? The two tubes I don't use, I thought they would be a good idea to put the rats in then put gas in one end and have a one way valve on the other to let the air out. I just use plastic tubs now.

 

[mikey_mike]

Soda Stream is CO2. Regardless of how you gas them with CO2, or the source you use, they will be briefly very distressed by the lack of oxygen until they become unconscious. I HATE killing rats... but it's a sad necessity I'm afraid...

Surely you could fiddle around with the supply rate to make things more humane - I may have over thought this, but I was imagining trickling in CO2 for several minutes, to reduce the O2 concentration in their lungs (but not for long enough to trigger pulmonary oedema) & then suddenly purging with CO2 to produce rapid asphyxiation. I have no idea if this would be a substantial improvement in reality.

 

[Bart70]

After a lot of reading (mostly about euthanising quail) I came across a lot of evidence that suggested that a small dose of Co2 should be administered first to put them to sleep, then the concentration lifted to euthanise them once they are 'under'.

I have been using this technique with quail with some success......A very small dose and they fall over relatively fast and lay breathing as if asleep. Shortly I administer the full dose which then completes the task without any apparent distress.

I have noticed that if I give the initial dose a little too fast or too much you can see that it starts to distress them - From what i understand, Co2 in a concentration above 50-60% produces acid in their airways. A concentration of around 30% will put them to sleep without causing pain. The aim is to put them to sleep at around 30% before raising it to the level that causes them pain whilst they are conscious. I am not sure if this is actually correct.....but it appears to be consistent with my observations and happy to take on board any evidence that it is incorrect.

Not sure if this approach applies to rodents but it seems to work well for me and does not cause apparent distress. I agree with Pythoninfinite - I hate doing it, especially when you nurture them from eggs, watch them hatch, help the weak ones out of their eggs etc.....It is not easy hence why I make the effort to reduce the distress.

I use Soda Streams as my source of Co2 - There are so many of them sitting unused in relatives cupboards they are an easy item to source.

 

[wokka]

A Co2 regulator and flow meter cost a couple of hundred. A 10kg CO2 bottle is about $150 a year to rent and say $80 to fill which probably kills around 10, 000 animals depending upon their size.
Bart# I am not sure how you would work out concentrations of CO2. My understanding is that CO2 is heavier than air so as soon as you put it in a gas chamber it displaces the air from the bottom up. If you put say 5 liters of CO2 in a 20 liter container my understanding is the bottom 25% of the container would be close to 100% CO2 and the top 3/4 would be air (containing a small amount of CO2).

 

[DarwinBrianT]

After a lot of reading (mostly about euthanising quail) I came across a lot of evidence that suggested that a small dose of Co2 should be administered first to put them to sleep, then the concentration lifted to euthanise them once they are 'under'.

I have been using this technique with quail with some success......A very small dose and they fall over relatively fast and lay breathing as if asleep. Shortly I administer the full dose which then completes the task without any apparent distress.

I have noticed that if I give the initial dose a little too fast or too much you can see that it starts to distress them - From what i understand, Co2 in a concentration above 50-60% produces acid in their airways. A concentration of around 30% will put them to sleep without causing pain. The aim is to put them to sleep at around 30% before raising it to the level that causes them pain whilst they are conscious. I am not sure if this is actually correct.....but it appears to be consistent with my observations and happy to take on board any evidence that it is incorrect.

Not sure if this approach applies to rodents but it seems to work well for me and does not cause apparent distress. I agree with Pythoninfinite - I hate doing it, especially when you nurture them from eggs, watch them hatch, help the weak ones out of their eggs etc.....It is not easy hence why I make the effort to reduce the distress.

I use Soda Streams as my source of Co2 - There are so many of them sitting unused in relatives cupboards they are an easy item to source.

Thanks for your post, I agree 30% to 40% is just right to start with and then turn it up. Sadly this info is not out there enough for people starting off.

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A Co2 regulator and flow meter cost a couple of hundred. A 10kg CO2 bottle is about $150 a year to rent and say $80 to fill which probably kills around 10, 000 animals depending upon their size.
Bart# I am not sure how you would work out concentrations of CO2. My understanding is that CO2 is heavier than air so as soon as you put it in a gas chamber it displaces the air from the bottom up. If you put say 5 liters of CO2 in a 20 liter container my understanding is the bottom 25% of the container would be close to 100% CO2 and the top 3/4 would be air (containing a small amount of CO2).

That would be like saying if you pour 2 different liquids together they would go straight to their different densities with out mixing first which just doesn't happen. In my opinion, not a fact. lol

 

[mikey_mike]

My understanding is that CO2 is heavier than air so as soon as you put it in a gas chamber it displaces the air from the bottom up.

Sorry, but it just doesn't work this way - mixing is very rapid, might as well be instantaneous for our purposes - otherwise the atmosphere would stratify out into layers of N2, CO2, methane etc

 

[Bart70]

A Co2 regulator and flow meter cost a couple of hundred. A 10kg CO2 bottle is about $150 a year to rent and say $80 to fill which probably kills around 10, 000 animals depending upon their size.
Bart# I am not sure how you would work out concentrations of CO2. My understanding is that CO2 is heavier than air so as soon as you put it in a gas chamber it displaces the air from the bottom up. If you put say 5 liters of CO2 in a 20 liter container my understanding is the bottom 25% of the container would be close to 100% CO2 and the top 3/4 would be air (containing a small amount of CO2).

You are right....I have no way of accurately determining or measuring the concentration of the flow. What I do is use a container that is not much higher than the height of the quail and the Co2 line is connected at the top sidewall of the container and against a 'wall' in such a way that it 'swirls' around from the top of the container. This combined with the quail moving around (they rarely sit still) provides some degree of dispersion. I have found that by watching and slowly releasing Co2 this way I can generally work out if they need a little more or if they have had enough. If I get it right they will give 1 or 2 gasps then slowly lie down on the floor of the container and will sit there breathing in this state until a final solid release of Co2 is administered, after which time they stop breathing.

I find this method provides adequate dispersion - The initial dose of Co2 administered to put them to 'sleep' is quite minimal (actually surprised me at first), and if settling on the floor there would be minimal effect given the small amount used and the volume inside the tub to fill to head height.

After reading reports of birds dying a very traumatic death with blood coming from their eyes/noses/mouths I figured that putting them in a tub and blasting it full of Co2 was not something I was comfortable doing. I find the 'sleep' then 'euthanise' method works much better for me.

Would love a regulator and flow meter....but at the moment I cannot justify it. I would be able to get it 'perfect' every time if I had one.

 

[wokka]

Sorry, but it just doesn't work this way - mixing is very rapid, might as well be instantaneous for our purposes - otherwise the atmosphere would stratify out into layers of N2, CO2, methane etc

My observation is that if you gas animals in an open topped container such as a garbage can, it works without the lid on because the CO2 sinks. I did this for years until the size of the can was too small for the number of animals being killed. Now we use 40 liter tubs , but without tight fitting lids. The air has to go somewhere so it is displaced out the top. I imagine the atmosphere is somewhat statified except that the varoius winds mix the air. I dont know if you get atmospheric air and hold it in a draft free environment weather the components "settle" out over time and statify. Sounds like a question for the more scietific on here.