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Collection permits do not work except under very strict guidelines
To put those guidelines in place would make each permit cost about $100.000

I do agree there should be more permits for native mammals

How long do you think rare birds would last in the wild if no permits were required???
Cassowary. various cockatoos etc etc
The collection permits for wild taking of certain reptiles in WA is $1000 per year. Each animal collected also incurs a royalty fee with a set price depending on the level the animal has been catagorised as.
I heard a collector paying something like $15k for one quarter in royalties to DPAW.

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Unfortunately it would seem greed has pushed aside conservation though. The herp society asked to have animals being bred in large numbers taken off the wild collection list. And DPAW replied with a firm NO.
 
Unfortunately it would seem greed has pushed aside conservation though. The herp society asked to have animals being bred in large numbers taken off the wild collection list. And DPAW replied with a firm NO.

Why would the herp society ask for these animals to be taken of the collection list? What sort of impact do the collected animals cause? Compared to feral cats or even illegal collecting if they were to stop pure 100% locality specific animal being available? Wouldn't it be better to allow these animals to be legally collected in controlled numbers and have the dept receive the royalties to help with other problems?

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I would even question the impact of illegal collection compared to the direct impact of feral cats, foxes and cane toads and even indirectly from all the other feral pests.
 
Maybe it's another case of different rules in different states, but can't you keep native mammals in Vic?

Yes we can, but the plan is to eventually move up to qld. And when I'm there I figure it'd be nice to have some things like quolls, gliders and smaller macropods outdoors in aviaries. In VIC we can keep them but even then there isn't much variety of choices, of 357 native species we can only keep some 35 species. And even then a few of those are not in private collections anyway as far as I know. But suppose you never know what's floating around out there...
 
Mammals are a bit different in their requirements I guess. You can't really keep kangaroos in your suburban backyard! :)
 
Why would the herp society ask for these animals to be taken of the collection list? What sort of impact do the collected animals cause? Compared to feral cats or even illegal collecting if they were to stop pure 100% locality specific animal being available? Wouldn't it be better to allow these animals to be legally collected in controlled numbers and have the dept receive the royalties to help with other problems?

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I would even question the impact of illegal collection compared to the direct impact of feral cats, foxes and cane toads and even indirectly from all the other feral pests.

There is no comparison between wild collection and environmental degradation through feral animals and mining etc
BUT
Wild collection takes the best stock because hobbyists want the best
Continually removing the best genetics from any gene pool can destroy the future breeding capabilities of any species

Australia is a big chunk of dirt
But in many ways it just like a group of small islands
All over Aus are isolated communities of various species
Those locales are ones where the prime 'pet' stock comes from
They are also the areas most liable to suffer from over harvesting

IMO there is only one way to stop illegal collecting and exotic smuggling
Make it an automatic 5 yr prison sentence with full right of appeal
That way anybody caught has to talk their way out of jail rather than just say
"Sorry... ok give me a fine and say Im a naughty boy" while they plan their next trip

Laws regarding wildlife in Aus are antiquated especially in WA
But they have been working up to a point
When you come to places like Asia and Africa and watch entire regions get stripped of wildlife to supply the pet trade it really makes you start questioning things

Systems like what is being done with oenpellis can work
They may help save other species from wild extinction too
They are probably the future of wild harvesting in Aus

Pilbarensis
Check out phascogales/wambengers
Awesome little critters
Never heard of them in the pet trade
 
5 year prison sentence with no appeal? You'd get less for rape..
 
There is no comparison between wild collection and environmental degradation through feral animals and mining etc
BUT
Wild collection takes the best stock because hobbyists want the best
Continually removing the best genetics from any gene pool can destroy the future breeding capabilities of any species

Australia is a big chunk of dirt
But in many ways it just like a group of small islands
All over Aus are isolated communities of various species
Those locales are ones where the prime 'pet' stock comes from
They are also the areas most liable to suffer from over harvesting

IMO there is only one way to stop illegal collecting and exotic smuggling
Make it an automatic 5 yr prison sentence with full right of appeal
That way anybody caught has to talk their way out of jail rather than just say
"Sorry... ok give me a fine and say Im a naughty boy" while they plan their next trip

Laws regarding wildlife in Aus are antiquated especially in WA
But they have been working up to a point
When you come to places like Asia and Africa and watch entire regions get stripped of wildlife to supply the pet trade it really makes you start questioning things

Systems like what is being done with oenpellis can work
They may help save other species from wild extinction too
They are probably the future of wild harvesting in Aus

Pilbarensis
Check out phascogales/wambengers
Awesome little critters
Never heard of them in the pet trade

In theory I would agree but still the impacts would be very low. We don't legally export reptiles so I don't see the collection of animals for the pet trade becoming a problem like we have seen in other countries, also the countries that it is a problem in are generally 3rd world populations so that would also play apart in their conservation problems.
 
What would happen if all government restrictions on collecting, keeping and sale were removed for all native fauna? If you are unsure of the answer then do a little digging into recent past history and have a look at the trapping and overseas sale of Australian finches, particularly the Gouldian Finch. Apply that to the current popularity of our many of reptiles overseas and what do you expect would happen?

Restrictions on what you can and cannot keep are based on conserving wildlife numbers in nature. For example, wild taking in WA is allowed for species that are common within their distribution and where the distribution is fairly substantial or extremely difficult to access. Wild taking in WA is not approved, even for species known to be amenable to captive husbandry, until assessment of their numbers versus distribution has been made.

The placement of captive animals on various schedules by governments is an attempt to reflect the characteristics I have previously listed in Post 21. OK, so they definitely have got a percentage of it wrong. That is not justification to do away with the lot and throw the baby out with the bathwater! What individuals within different states or territories should be doing is firstly agreeing up the system of graded keeping and then generating discussion with the bureaucracy responsible. Herpetological societies are in the best position to do this. They can decide through experience what animals are appropriate at what level and what husbandry and risks are involved for given species.

I am dumfounded by comments such as “You should known what you are capable of keeping”. Each species or species group has their specific husbandry “rules” and you need to be shown these to make you fully aware of what is required. You also need to be made aware of the potential hazards of any given species e.g. scrub pythons and their tendency to bite; substantial sized Lace Monitors and their speed and the damage they can inflict if they bite.

The tiered system of keeping is designed to look after both animals and keepers. Because of our knowledge we can pick faults in the system. I have already stated how that should be addressed. That aside, the basic idea is that you learn about the general and specific requirements of reptiles with an easy to keep, robust species. Having gained practical experience in meeting the needs of a less demanding species, the practical knowledge acquired can be incorporated into research and application of the needs of a more challenging species. I see reason for demeaning this process as “jumping through hoops” just so you get to keep a higher grade animal.

Helping keepers that are out of their depth is where herp societies and forum can be of assistance. So long as they do not lay blame.

There are a number of native mammals that thrive as pets. The Quoll is one as well as Sugar Gliders and Squirrel Gliders plus a number of other Dasyurids and several species of native rodents. These would be much better alternatives to cats, rats and rabbits. Imagine where we might be if all pet cats were replaced by native mammals.


Blue


 
Love to keep native mammals. A friend is a demonstrator and has a huge range of species and I would love to get some , in particular , the Dasyurids but not allowed to.
have to get my fix when I visit his place.
 
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