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Thanks Gordo. Welcome back and CONGRATULATIONS on your great finds. 8)
You and Gavin must be over the moon! :D
 
Thanks for posting that pic Fay, i've been flat out since early last week and have hardly had a chance to sit down at the comp. Here's a pic of the second animal from last week. It's late i'll be back in the morning to answer questions.

View attachment 289645

oenpelli's are like prehistoric Antaresie sp. makes me wonder if they actually belong to the Morelia genus, No i am not saying they belong to Antaresia but they don't resemble any other Morelia species.

by the way, she/he is awesome! congrats!:D
 
oenpelli's are like prehistoric Antaresie sp. makes me wonder if they actually belong to the Morelia genus, No i am not saying they belong to Antaresia but they don't resemble any other Morelia species.

by the way, she/he is awesome! congrats!:D

Oenpelli's have very Morelia like heads and bodys. If anything scrubbies least resemble other morelia.

Looking forward to these being around in captivity.
 
Oops

Well that's a little embarrassing. I upped the wrong picture last night, i'm surprised no one jumped on me about it!

Thankyou for making this thread Fay.


Here's a few pictures of the big female we found on the second night plus the young male. I'll post answers to questions after this post.

Doesn't really show how big she is, over 3m but probably under 4. Perfect condition, great girth and muscle tone, hardly any scars and maybe one or two skin worms.







The boy is about 140cm and about 80g at a guess. Probably one of last years hatchies, possibly this years.


This gives you an idea of the length/girth. They are more slender for their size even than a BTS.
 
Thanks for posting that pic Fay, i've been flat out since early last week and have hardly had a chance to sit down at the comp. Here's a pic of the second animal from last week. It's late i'll be back in the morning to answer questions.

View attachment 289645


stunning oenpelli!, damn i see why they call them childrens pythons!
 
Great work Gordo and good to see you back mate.
 
How long is the first really big female?


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The small number reflects the justification for removing them from the wild. That is that they are presumed to be declining like many animals in Kakadu (and therefor in Arnhem Land also). That is possibly true in Kakadu but let's not go into that here. He is not collecting in Kakadu.

TOs say they mostly eat fruit bats and there is no suggestion of any population stress with them.

I believe that they have a far greater distribution through Arnhem Land than is currently recognised and I have communicated this to Gavin in person.

I'm glad you made this post Steve, these are important conversations to have and i think open forums like this are the perfect place for them.

The drop bear population is definitely vulnerable for several reasons, i'll attach a paper outlining some of the reasons rather than typing them here. This paper also shows the known distribution of the species, which is relatively well understood by most people with a serious interest in the animal. I suspect that they may be a tiny bit more widespread than the map shows (perhaps as far South as Katherine, but not an awful lot further to the East). The reasons for collecting in the areas that we are is simply because we know the traditional owners and in the latest locations we can access the land for most of the year without a helicopter.

You know as well as i do that TO's have a different understanding and connection to the land than we do. The assumption the folk you have spoken to that they mainly eat flying foxes, I think, is naive and shows the thinking of typical non-herpers. They've seen them eat fruit bats, so that must be the majority of their diet. I think that is incredibly unlikely. It is more likely that their diet would contain a far greater number of different species including cave bats, birds and other small to medium sized mammals.

Researchers, such as Woinarski, have clearly shown a dramatic decline in the numbers of small mammals, including some bats, reptiles, birds and amphibians in the stone country specifically (the food source of drop bears) and across the country. This crash was occurring before the toads and has now accelerated. The extinction of some of these animals is imminent, if it hasn't already happened already. Just to be clear, some species of fruit bat are in trouble, not specifically in the stone country but damage is occurring to their populations and their is no reason why the West Arnhem populations would be immune.

We can't clearly say that drop bear numbers are declining. But is this a reason to NOT bring them into captivity? I think absolutely not! Lets say they are in huge numbers and we just can't work them out. Fantastic! Removing a few pairs will have a negligible impact on the overall population and those people who enjoy keeping reptiles will get the opportunity to do this legally. The other side of the coin is that they are on the brink of extinction and there is no captive populations and we watch them slip into void like the Christmas Island pipistrelle (and even more disturbingly like what is happening right now to Bellatorus obiri, Giant Arnhem Land Skink which was once common as mud, perfect for captivity and now essentially extinct with no captive population, even when there is a plan and a want to do this we are still not allowed to catch a few to insure and conserve the species. It makes me really angry that there are people willing to do and fund this yet the powers to be are blocking us at every turn!). Wouldn't we rather have them alive, although not in the wild, than not alive at all?

If Gavin turned around and burnt the TO's, he knows that doing so would put an end to all of the friendliness and jeopardize all and any future conservation plans. I don't believe for a second that he would do that and if he did, despite Gav being a close friend, i would withdraw my support too.

With all this said i'm very happy you have a slightly differing opinion. This is what sparks the conversation and they are conversations that need to be had to help boost support for the growing movement for captive conservation.
 
Yea I just sent him congrats.

Re my earlier comment, Gavin has had 2 for some time now and Faye's post suggests he has recently acquired another 3 = 5. I believe the Section 19 permit is for 4. I have no problem with Gavin or this project but I am far from convinced that the numbers have fallen and there is an urgent need for a captive breeding program to "save the species" anyway. Countrymen dont seem to think so.

My issue is that very often whitefellas make agreements with blackfellas and then exceed or break the contract. I believe Gavin is honorable but I am always a tad wary with these things given what I have witnessed in the past.

Right now Gav has 4 Steve, 2 mature girls, 1 subadult girl and yearling boy.
 
How long is the first really big female?


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The first female (Esther) was 2.3m on capture. Second (Ingird) was 4.2m, latest girl (Kate) hasn't been measured but looks to be over 3m and the boy (yet to be named) is about 1.4m

This is Ingrid.
 
Thanks for all the pics Gordo, they are unreal. How about a naming comp for the boy , it will get national coverage I am sure ??
 
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