Snakes wearing hats

[andynic07]

Andy, your suggestion that "empty vessels can only be made more full" means you must be an eternal optimist. It's the same as saying there's no such thing as a stupid question... indeed there is mate, and they're often asked by people who have no business keeping any sort of animal.


Jamie

I try to be most of the time Jamie but sometimes it gets the better of me. I too think animals are noble and should be treated as such and that is why the lego hide idea and themed enclosures are not things that I like but each to their own until it effects the welfare of the animal. I do not like the idea of the hats put onto the snakes but think that it would not put any more stress on an animal then excessive holding which seems to what some people like doing also. I am not as passionately against it as you but still on the same side on this one.

Andy

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I guess so, but the name thing is definitely insignificant compared to making animals look stupid for entertainment. I'm probably an old, conservative (not politically) fuddy-duddy, but stripping grand creatures of their dignity so that some can get a laugh doesn't ever sit well with me.

Jamie

 

[RedFox]

I actually don't have too much of a problem if there is a reason behind it. A fairly well known greyhound rehoming organisation dressed up a bunch of greyhounds for a calendar to raise awareness for the breed and show what lovely pets they can make. They received very good feedback as there are a lot of misconceptions about the breed being vicious.

While it isn't something I would do to my pythons, I don't really like handling them that much either, it does portray snakes as 'cute' and not something to be feared and killed. Maybe a couple of sentences along those lines to accompany the photos would have being nice.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Yes I have seen it before and no, it is not my thing, but to each their own. I judge it on the degree of discomfort to the animal in preparing it for the photo shoot. The snakes with hats seem much less intrusive than cats, dogs, tigers, bears, racoons etc dressed in human clothes. Is it any worse than placing a pair of red boxing gloves on a kangaroo and promoting that as Australia’s mascot? It may or may not appeal, but with respect to treatment of the animal I doubt it is any more stressful than au naturel photo shoots.

With regards to the comment made about the cobra, the erect fore body and flared hood is indicative of the photographer or handler producing a defensive response in the snake, not the fact that has previously had a small light weight object stuck on its head. If the object was its primary focus of concern it would crawl into a crevice to dislodge it.

MissDangerous, I thank you for elucidating the nature of the tasselled red sequins. I would not have picked it myself - perhaps best put down to simply gender difference....

Blue

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Yes I have seen it before and no, it is not my thing, but to each their own. I judge it on the degree of discomfort to the animal in preparing it for the photo shoot. The snakes with hats seem much less intrusive than cats, dogs, tigers, bears, racoons etc dressed in human clothes. Is it any worse than placing a pair of red boxing gloves on a kangaroo and promoting that as Australia’s mascot? It may or may not appeal, but with respect to treatment of the animal I doubt it is any more stressful than au naturel photo shoots.

With regards to the comment made about the cobra, the erect fore body and flared hood is indicative of the photographer or handler producing a defensive response in the snake, not the fact that has previously had a small light weight object stuck on its head. If the object was its primary focus of concern it would crawl into a crevice to dislodge it.

MissDangerous, I thank you for elucidating the nature of the tasselled red sequins. I would not have picked it myself - perhaps best put down to simply gender difference....

Blue

Mike, it doesn't much matter whether it's better or worse than a kangaroo with boxing gloves or any of the other examples you offer, it still demeans the animals in question.

Jamie

 

[Snowman]

Mike, it doesn't much matter whether it's better or worse than a kangaroo with boxing gloves or any of the other examples you offer, it still demeans the animals in question.

Jamie

I cant help but question the IQ of people that find humiliating and dressing up animals for entertainment amusing... I guess I have a preference for more thought provoking humour.

Anyone who thinks that putting something on a snakes head and photographing it, causes no more discomfort than any other photo shoot with a snake either has no experience or can not read a snakes body language.

When gripped behind the head or by the head a snake is quite defenceless against any predator. They are well aware of this and do not like anything touching their heads. When bitting is your only real defence, you can understand why they have that instinct.

This thread doesn't bother me. I just didn't believe it should be included in the "Reptile discussion" category.

Some people keep snakes as toys others keep them to learn about the fascinating biological creatures that they are. No doubt you can learn a lot about someone with the way they treat animals and the respect and empathy they have for them....

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Yes I have seen it before and no, it is not my thing, but to each their own. I judge it on the degree of discomfort to the animal in preparing it for the photo shoot. The snakes with hats seem much less intrusive than cats, dogs, tigers, bears, racoons etc dressed in human clothes. Is it any worse than placing a pair of red boxing gloves on a kangaroo and promoting that as Australia’s mascot? It may or may not appeal, but with respect to treatment of the animal I doubt it is any more stressful than au naturel photo shoots.

With regards to the comment made about the cobra, the erect fore body and flared hood is indicative of the photographer or handler producing a defensive response in the snake, not the fact that has previously had a small light weight object stuck on its head. If the object was its primary focus of concern it would crawl into a crevice to dislodge it.

MissDangerous, I thank you for elucidating the nature of the tasselled red sequins. I would not have picked it myself - perhaps best put down to simply gender difference....

Blue

I'm surprised that you are able to describe the Cobra scenario in such detail Mike, and that you know so much about Cobra behaviour and what it would do if it was stressed. Have you ever kept a Cobra, or kept and handled snakes in any numbers? Your assessment of what a stressed snake would do to remove an object someone had placed on its head supposes far more intelligence than most snakes would have when placed in a stressful situation.

Jamie

 

[dragondragon]

You have to admit the hog nose pictures are pretty funny

 

[Classabear]

This is really stupid... just for thinking snakes in hats is cute, does not say anything about a persons intelligence... If anything, it says the person has more of a sense of humor. I really doubt this is doing much stress to the snakes, with the exception of the one with the strap. there is an extremely light weight object sitting on their head... that is all... no different to maybe a person touching the head of a snake.. and im sure these people dont dress up their snakes every day.. it was most likely for 1 photo.. it isnt cruelty in any way. I respect people have different ways to view it this, but some of you are just taking this way too seriously. Lighten up... and no, it's not humiliating the animal... As for the comment about my snakes, names, I named them that not to 'humiliate them'. A more humiliating name to me would be something along the lines of 'Sir Snake' or 'stripe'. I am allowed to call my snakes whatever I please, and require no comments or opinions on what I name them. how rude.

As for everything else, most the people on this forum are far too serious and cruel. People all have different ways of living, and some people like things other people dont like.This forum is meant to help support newbies like me and give them helpful advice, but instead most of you have come across as judgmental, biased jerks. This forum was not to be used to criticize people for the names they give their snakes and the species of gecko they keep.

There are only a handful of people on this forum willing to help, and thank you to them.

- - - Updated - - -

Another add on:
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/chit-chat-39/hats-snakes-lmao-31762/
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/chit-chat-39/snakes-hats-210257/

2 threads on this same forum of the same topic. I don't see anybody complaining back then. I think this is just an unfortunate time to have signed up to this forum.

 

[dragondragon]

So your saying sir hiss is a cruel name

 

[andynic07]

In all fairness the majority of the posters on the first thread were against it and the second thread has a handful of posters only. Like I said not my thing but each to their own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Classabear]

So your saying sir hiss is a cruel name

I didn't say that. I'm saying if the names I call my snake are 'embarrassing' then what would tht make a name like 'sir hiss'? ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Snowman]

What was the other thread?

 

[Bluetongue1]

Jamie, I am surprised by your reply. Fish will rub their body against a rock to try and get reduce or get rid of something on it that is irritating them. Does that suppose fish as “far more intelligence than most snakes would have when placed in a stressful situation.” My description of the cobra’s stance is hardly “detailed” and in addition to those I have seen in zoos, on visual media and read about, I spent some time discussing their reactions with Longqi in Bali, who kindly demonstrated with wild caught specimens, including a rather delightful leucistic form.

The statement about how it might attempt to dislodge the hat was meant to be general and not so specific. My error in trying to illustrate clearly the point I was endeavouring to make. I have seen a large Cunningham Skink dislodge a smaller one from its shoulders by crawling into a narrow ledge and immediately returning. No doubt that was in the back of my mind at the time. I have also a snake with another snake biting its jaw, angling its head and dragging backwards in an apparent attempt to dislodge the offender. Irrespective of that error it does not invalidate what I was saying about the snake’s posture in relation to the comments made in Posts No. 5 & 6. It was meant to be a minor correction.


This discussion is about value judgements. Depending on one’s values the photos might be seen as incongruous and therefore inappropriate. Alternatively, juxtaposition is an often used source of humour and so the photos may be seen as funny or cute and acceptable. The values relating to an individual’s perspective on the topic at hand are what should be at the core of such a discussion. However, do not expect confluence as values by their very nature are complex and individually formed.

Blue

 

[RedFox]

[MENTION=39861]Classabear[/MENTION] the comment I made about names, was referring to one of pythoninifinite's previous comments, a bit of a pot stir but definitely not aimed at you and your pets.

As seen on the current reptile name thread and previous threads lots of people choose to name their reptiles lots of different names. As I said in your previous thread some of mine have 'weird' names. Your coastals are just that, yours, why not give them names if that makes you happy.

You are right about the hats probably causing no more terror than a person touching their head. Snakes really don't like it when their heads are touched for reasons described in previous posts and should only be done if really necessary, eg, bad shed, assist or force feeding. They do not 'get used' to it although some are more tolerant than others.

People on here aren't trying to be cruel or mean, we all love reptiles and all replies are posted with the animals best interests at heart. Sometimes this can can across harsh.

 

[Lawra]

I really doubt this is doing much stress to the snakes, with the exception of the one with the strap. there is an extremely light weight object sitting on their head... that is all... no different to maybe a person touching the head of a snake.

I love that with your days/weeks of experience you are able to state this with the utmost certainty. At the end of the day snakes don't like being touched on the head - period - for the reasons stated previously by others.

This forum is not just to help newbies. Forums allow people with a common interest to connect in one place dedicated to the topic and in this case it's Australian reptiles. We're not your personal encyclopaedias and this is still the internet - it's a jungle out there!

Posting several threads a day about fluff is one way to ensure anything you spout gets jumped on - but of course that's just my opinion

PS See what your quick forum search found? Previous threads on the exact same topic! For future reference: do a search first and either

1) learn from what was posted and not post yourself
2) bump the thread with your input/question
3) if thread is closed, request it to be opened
4) ask specific members via PM about their posts in the thread, quoting source so they aren't confused

VERY LAST OPTION

5) start a new thread about it and reference previous threads and give as much info as possible so you don't look like a fool

 

[Darlyn]

Well done Lawra, I like a post that is succinct and tells it like it is. You did omit the grumpy old buggers making a mountain out of a molehill because they are bored and puerile rubbish annoys them but hey I've done that for you

 

[Lawra]

Well done Lawra, I like a post that is succinct and tells it like it is. You did omit the grumpy old buggers making a mountain out of a molehill because they are bored and puerile rubbish annoys them but hey I've done that for you

Thank you kindly Darlyn You are too kind.

I glossed over the grumpy old buggers as I fear I am becoming one of them - minus the mountains of knowledge. I am bored with repetitive posts and am looking for topics to spark intrigue whilst trying to sort through the (for lack of better word) fluff.

 

[Darlyn]

TBH I'm grumpy because I posted about the death of Blondie (the original albino Darwin) and there was no discussion meanwhile over here snakes with hats is more worthy. Guess I'm jealous.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Lawra, Rule 6 aside, I believe that some things are probably better done by PM. By being openly judgmental of others in the public arena of the forum, it creates an adversarial situation where acceptance of defeat and loss of face are required to achieve change. If your motivation was other than achieving change then perhaps you chose appropriately.

A negative of tackling a perceived issue in the public arena is that you leave yourself open to scrutiny with respect to what you have said. For example, I had a quick look through the last dozen threads you have started. There are a number where use of existing information in APS would have answered all the questions you had and more. There is one that “amused you so you had to share”, another that was “so cool you just had to share”. One of those got the grand total of one response.

What was most telling was a thread titled “What the???” with a photo of one man walking two dogs on leashes greeting another “walking” two really huge pythons or boas also on leashes. Idealistically I find it much more difficult to accept this mimicry of everyday life as having some humour to it than I do with the obvious dressing up for the camera of placing hats on snakes. This is my considered opinion but I do acknowledge that this an only an opinion.


The Hats. There is a biological phenomena known as Sensory Adaptation in which there is a change in the excitability of the sense organs as a result of continuous stimulation such that a more intense stimulus is required. For example, if you have an object in contact with your skin, initially the touch receptors fire off but after a short while they stop. It requires greater pressure in the same spot to make them fire or movement of the object to an area not previously in contact. I was thankful of sensory adaptation as a kid when I had clean out the chook/duck pen. For most hat styles used it wuld not have taken long for the snake to adapt to the hat and not be influenced by it.

Blue