Australian Representative Herp Body

[Pythoninfinite]

The problem with the NSW negotiations was that they weren't actually negotiations. The NPWS operatives had an outcome that they wanted to achieve regardless of input from anyone else - the canvassing of opinion from experienced keepers was just to make it look like they had "consulted." As soon as it was apparent that we didn't support their agenda, they just shut the door on us. At the end of the day, they have the power, and that's the way it will always be. All the talk of gathering a cohesive set of opinions from keepers collectively is just flying kites - too many individual agendas, too many ratbag personalities, too little experience in dealing with determined bureaucrats, too many state-to-state differences and needs and too little goodwill. It's very, very hard indeed...

Jamie

 

[chimerapro]

I propose we all just stop abiding by the current regulations unanimously and see how they go charging all of us lol. Then pool the fees we would normally pay to get the body up and running, theoretically the head of the body would be required to be based in Canberra or the very least able to travel frequently. The eastern states have the people power yet WA and Tas would have the most to gain from the idea. I'm in Qld Jamie and I want our system as well as all the rest changed with it. Because I'm "that hybrid guy" I'm probably not aloud to share my ideas or passion for the industry that I share with my Herper brothers and sisters lol I vote someone else to do it If nobody will though I'll have a go as nobody else seems to want to haha

 

[butters]

Personally Jamie I think you went off a little half cocked in response to champagnes post. I didn't read any of what you seemed to from his post.

Did you just read it totally differently than me or is it the poster you have an issue with? Sorry I don't know either of you at all besides from your posts so have no bias here.

I read that even though a lot of effort was made by those involved from the herp hobby in the process almost nothing was taken from their input. Your mentioned yourself that npws knew what they wanted so would it have made any difference? I thought that was the point champagne was trying to make. Some people put a lot of effort in but really didn't make much of a difference to the outcome. The end result was achieved irrespective of their input.

Its bickering like this amongst hobbyists themselves that dooms any attempt from the start. We can't agree on anything as a group and the different camps on various issues are almost polar opposites. Throw egos, personal agendas, financial interests and having to deal with government bodies into it and you get what we have.

i have an agenda here too. Just like Nathan I am in queensland and other than being allowed to keep native mammals would be very reluctant to add my voice to a body that promoted a more national approach to keeping. Any compromise or change to regulations which would be acceptable to other state controlling bodies would mean losing out in queensland.

i agree that the only way for it to be halfway effective would be for all herp societies to band together under an umbrella body. With representatives from all bodies. The aquarium hobby already does this to an extent but even they have limited effectiveness.

 

[hayden123113]

I propose we all just stop abiding by the current regulations unanimously and see how they go charging all of us lol. Then pool the fees we would normally pay to get the body up and running, theoretically the head of the body would be required to be based in Canberra or the very least able to travel frequently. The eastern states have the people power yet WA and Tas would have the most to gain from the idea. I'm in Qld Jamie and I want our system as well as all the rest changed with it. Because I'm "that hybrid guy" I'm probably not aloud to share my ideas or passion for the industry that I share with my Herper brothers and sisters lol I vote someone else to do it If nobody will though I'll have a go as nobody else seems to want to haha

I completely agree we should start with that silly import and export licence "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free." this is taken from the Australian's constitution and the import and export licence that we all have to pay is breaches it and goes against our constitutional rights, I would love to see how it would hold up in court if we where to band together and refuse to pay it.

 

[junglepython2]

i have an agenda here too. Just like Nathan I am in queensland and other than being allowed to keep native mammals would be very reluctant to add my voice to a body that promoted a more national approach to keeping. Any compromise or change to regulations which would be acceptable to other state controlling bodies would mean losing out in queensland.

From my understanding there is a review in progress that may change things for the worse in QLD.

 

[champagne]

From my understanding there is a review in progress that may change things for the worse in QLD.

Its going on everywhere luckily the dept is so under funded most won't be enforced.

I personally would support an organisation even if I didn't agree with all their proposed changes as long as the majority was for the better of the hobby.

 

[marcus0002]

From my understanding there is a review in progress that may change things for the worse in QLD.

Whats going to change in QLD?

 

[chimerapro]

Not much will change with the legislation revision, it's all just hype created by many who probably haven't even read The Nature Conservation act 1992. Most of the changes are happening to allow mining in Nat parks, changes to bird species lists, legalisation of reptile mutations (and hybrids I hope) mostly the changes that will happen to the act will be to make it easier to rape, pillage and destroy our native animals and habitats nothing else from what I have gathered after speaking to the SEQLD regional manager Sally Egan a while back.

 

[mangrove]

-

 

[marcus0002]

So nothing that affects hobbyist reptile keepers directly?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[chimerapro]

So nothing that affects hobbyist reptile keepers directly?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

I highly doubt it but nobody will know until it's released

 

[junglepython2]

Whats going to change in QLD?

From what I have seen and heard there will be some clarification (presumably for the worse) on what constitutes "commercial" breeding. As well as a review of dangerous wildlife so I think ven keepers may be in for a few surprises.

 

[marcus0002]

On the other hand they may reclassify hobby species as commercial.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[longirostris]

I completely agree we should start with that silly import and export licence "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free." this is taken from the Australian's constitution and the import and export licence that we all have to pay is breaches it and goes against our constitutional rights, I would love to see how it would hold up in court if we where to band together and refuse to pay it.

Or better yet test their vaildity and legality through the Federal Court or High Court. I have been on about this for years to anybody who would listen. I keep being told that other legislation such as wildlife laws would intervene but as far as I am concerned the transfer of most reptiles by owners to buyers in different states is a commercial process and is exactly what the section of the constitution relating to the process is designed to protect against. How the states have gotten away with this for so long is only because THERE IS NO representative body large enough or with the financial or political clout to instigate and follow through with a serious challenge. The test can be to one of any of the states import/export regulations. Only needs one test case victory and the laws are gone. Having said all of this you can be sure it would be a huge battle through the courts and one where the outcome is not ncessarily as obvious as it appears to be. Still, that is what an organised national group may be able to achieve.

 

[Waterrat]

Somebody did attempt to get some form of a ball rolling by creating a Facebook page: "Support Page for The National Australian Reptile Keepers Regulatory Body" and they tried to remain impartial and anonymous but due to industry "big wigs" perception of this person it was slandered and the support page was shot down in flames

Nathan, that anonymous "somebody" was you. In your wisdom, you jumped prematurely right in front of everybody and created FB page (as you described above) without any consultation with Greg and Gavin. When confronted by the "big wigs" as you put it, your response was that the page was meant to be handed
over to Greg and Gavin. Yes, you were shot down in flames for doing that because Greg and Gavin had different plans and didn't need your help.

 

[RoryBreaker]

Clean slate time people! Lets move on and start again.

If you want to accuse, cut down or whinge about anyone go do it on Facebook where the masses and the governments can't easily see it from a google search.

Let's keep this thread more constructive so the Reptile keeper community can move forward.

 

[Wild~Touch]

Oh how I wish !

Clean slate time people! Lets move on and start again.

If you want to accuse, cut down or whinge about anyone go do it on Facebook where the masses and the governments can't easily see it from a google search.

Let's keep this thread more constructive so the Reptile keeper community can move forward.

 

[chimerapro]

Clean slate time people! Lets move on and start again.

If you want to accuse, cut down or whinge about anyone go do it on Facebook where the masses and the governments can't easily see it from a google search.

Let's keep this thread more constructive so the Reptile keeper community can move forward.

Oh how I wish !

It'll happen with positive attitudes and maturity, negativity and finger pointing doesn't help the cause though

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I believe the ONLY way you'll get any reasonable communication with bureaucrats is via the political route. This is what Gavin was leaning towards - establishing ongoing dialogue with the relevant Ministers, certainly State and maybe Federally, is absolutely essential - dealing with the various National Parks and their office Johnnies is pretty pointless and leads to years of being given the runaround. This was the case in WA (10 years of pointless yakking with CALM) until we had two approachable Ministers (Judy Edwards (Lab) and Cheryl Edwardes (Lib)) across two consecutive governments. The process was started by Judy and continued after a change of government by Cheryl. Unfortunately we thought we had good cooperation from the (then) CALM bureaucrats, and left them alone for 12 months to draft the legislation - and they turned what could have been a great horse for West Australians into camel!

What was touted by Gordon Wyre as the best legislation in the country was in fact the most limited, expensive and clumsiest system you could imagine, with overbearing punishments for even minor infringements or oversights.

To achieve any change in attitude it has to be done at the political end (from the top down), and this would probably best be done by a professional lobbyist who understands the problems and can see both sides of any argument, and is used to dealing with politicians. Ministers traditionally take their advice from their departmental bureaucrats, and whilst ever this remains the case, we're p*ssing into the wind as far as achieving change.

Jamie

 

[Wild~Touch]

Good point Jamie I do agree

Still we need to been seen as a positive intelligent dedicated group of Reptile Enthusiasts....can we do it ?

Education and Good Manners are essential especially among the younger generation...they need a wise mentor

Cheers
Sandee