LOVE LIFE of Snakes

[Starter]

What is known about the FEELINGS of Australian pythons?

I hope to get a large number of responses to this question, as I have searched all over the Internet and could not find any answers there. All herp science and research seems to focus only on measurable facts and features, but does not even consider to describe the PSYCHOLOGY of snakes. My question is not about the reproductive cycle or the mating behavior of snakes. I want to know what is known about their EMOTIONAL love life! Their feelings of love and affection, so to say.

Examples from my own home:

1) I have one pair of eight year old snakes who love each other so dearly that they are currently sitting on their common eggs together - male and female - to keep them warm and to protect them. This couple has been inseparable for years.

2) Snakes can also form loving bonds with humans: I have felt heaps of affection from my snakes. Whenever one of them got out and was found again, they always snuggled around me and were obviously happy to have found me again. When my daughter took a python for a "show and tell" to school and I put the snake right in the middle of a big circle of 30 kids, the snake immediately found the right direction and went straight back "home" into the safety of my daughter's arms. We did this experiment with three snakes and it always worked.

3) The "dark side": I also have a pair of (new) snakes who were kept together from baby age as a breeding pair for four years, but practiced "domestic violence" - with the male being badly harassed by the female, bitten repeatedly and not allowed to eat any food, until he was close to death by starvation, while the female grew about four times his size.

4) Now, after one month recovery and eating in solitude, I have introduced that mistreated male to a yearling girl of mine (though of a different kind) who has about the same size as him, and I watched them today all day how they were gradually falling in love with each other deeply. As everything in snakes (except of hunting) it happened very slowly, but it was nevertheless very touching. I observed how they said their "first hello", then "sniffed" each other, then "kissed" the first time, then connected "heart-to-heart" and then shyly moved apart again, amazed by their own boldness, just as teenagers do...and from my intuitive spontaneous "guts" feeling, I would say that they have indeed fallen deeply in love with each other.

So, my question to you is: What do you know about the FEELINGS of Australian pythons? Has anybody done any studies?

 

[Brownbird]

Look up 'anthropomorphism' in a dictionary. THat will tell you everything you need to know.

 

[GBWhite]

My friend this topic has been discussed and debated on here many, many times and a little searching through the threads might help with your question. I haven't got the time at the moment to go into detail but basically snakes are pretty simple creatures with a very small, primitive brain that does not possess the ability to recognise or display emotion or affection. The existence evolves around survival and bonding with humans (or for that matter other snakes) is not on their list. What is often construed as emotional ties and displays of affection is simply a misunderstanding of snake behaviour. From memory there is a good discussion on one of the forums here that talks about snake psychology and how their brain works and I think it's titled, "Do snakes have conscious thought" and it starts off talking about the delivery of dry bites from vens and goes on from there.


Cheers,

George

 

[Starter]

OK, thanks. I found a thread with very good answers here:https://aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php/161746-Reptile-Emotions-Debate - and a poll which shows that most forum members believe that snakes do have emotions. I agree.

 

[GBWhite]

Hi again Starter,

First off I'd like to say that I respect your right to an opinion and very happy to accept that as your opinion. However I also believe that if the thread was posted on a forum of extremely experienced herpetoculturalist and herpetologist who have far more extensive experience in reptile behaviour and how the reptile brain works you'd find a very different outcome in the pole.

I was wondering if you've based your opinion on the results of the pole or have read the entire thread? If it's read properly I think you'll find the only people on the thread that have posted unbiased opinions that are based on experience, logic, research and opinion are, Melissa, Cement, Saximus and Longidres.

Melissa seems to some up the bulk of the posts where she states. "opinions based on illogical perceptions of simple minded behaviour that are exhibited in very simple animals".

Many of the opinions that have been posted are from people who read what they assume the animal is thinking without any real rational thought. Remember the vast majority of the people on here are like yourself, keepers with very limited experience in the study of reptile behaviour. Even Lonqgi who put up the thread in the first instance has openly admitted that he has very limited knowledge in the study of reptiles and from many of his posts gives the impression that he is not really interested in the subject. Personally I believe it was originally posted in an attempt to seek support after a previous discussion on here where he disagreed about reptiles not having conscious thought. Whether that is the case or not and with no disrespect to APS or it's members intended but quite frankly the problem is that he's posted it on the wrong forum site if he was looking for a debate between people who have a far better understanding on the subject.

As mentioned earlier it might not hurt to look up the meaning of anthropomorphic. Basically it is defined as an attribution of human form or other characteristics to anything other than a human being.

.Cheers

 

[Tigerlily]

Starter you might be interested in an article I came across just the other day:

http://socialsnakes.org/squamate-sociality/

I found the part about rattlesnakes interesting; I know they're not the same as our snakes but I do think the article proves that we still have a lot to learn about our snakey friends; I don't anthropomorphise them but I also do think people tend to underestimate their capacity for learning and forming attachments.


(edited for grammar!)

 

[pinefamily]

The following is only from our own experience.
Some pythons tolerate handling more than others, so is there some form of primitive "personality" there? Our pythons seem to know our smell, because when held by someone else, they sometimes are restless, but seemingly calm down when held by us; are they making a connection between our smell and a feeling of security?
This not anthropomorphising, just some observations.