Just a comment...

[Pythoninfinite]

Having just read the last few posts on the recent (and closed) neuro thread, I was disappointed to see a couple of the contributing members getting personal and rather nasty - this is probably quite distressing for the OP, who was simply seeking advice about a potentially significant problem with her snake. One of the contributors who decided to attack in such an unpleasant manner is a very new member here, with no experience. There are two points I could distill from this thread, and it's important for new keepers (of all sorts of animals) to stick by these firm rules - NEVER buy a sick animal out of sympathy for it or because it is cheap, and NEVER knowingly sell a sick animal to anyone, even at a low price. This doesn't necessarily apply to injured animals (which may have obvious injury, but a good prognosis), but it certainly does apply to diseased animals where the outcome is unknown.

Having been around reptile people for nearly 60 years, I've got a very thick hide, so the personal stuff just bounces off. I readily acknowledge that I still have heaps to learn about reptiles, and I made many mistakes in my early days. In the 50s, 60s, & 70s we didn't have access to the info that new keepers do via the internet, so learning what worked and what didn't sometimes cost the life of our animals. These days novice keepers can access advanced information at the click of a button - if good advice is offered but rejected, the animals are the ones which eventually pay the price.

Jamie

 

[Freeloader]

Mate I have to admit the future looks bleak for our hobby going on that thread. Owning a reptile for 2 weeks does not by any means make you an expert. I have had a licence for 16 years and would not even think I know it all.
But you get all kinds on this forum and you can either participate in the forum or sit back and watch.
Over the 9 years on this forum I haven't posted much at all. I think it's time for me to sit back and watch again waiting for the "My python has escaped" threads to come up and see who helps and who doesn't and LMAO.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Ha! I don't think a couple of young reactionaries will make or break the business of reptile keeping. I'm just curious as to why they think they have right to be so rude and personal to people they don't even know when they obviously don't have a great deal of knowledge themselves. I probably sounded quite blunt when I indicated that selling animals with obvious neuro problems was ignorant of the potential catastrophe it could cause, but I was blunt for a reason - regardless of the justifications put forward, it is NEVER OK.

Jamie

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

The behaviour is not unusual in some of the younger generations in many ways is it?
I see this type of behaviour from many in the workplace these days. (They don'y last)

 

[Bluetongue1]

Itwas more than just ?a couple of the contributing members getting personal?.

Therehas long been a tendency on APS to criticise the person along with the actions,irrespective of circumstances. Thisattitude is neither fair nor constructive. It serves to alienate and make people reticent to disclose any of their undertakings,or even understandings, for fear of being personally attacked. Thankfully this tendency has wanedconsiderably in more recent years.

Ignorancerequires education to eliminate it, not alienation. It is disappointing to note that it took 4pages of posts to provide a full comprehensive explanation of why it isunethical to on-sell animals with undiagnosed disease symptoms and equallyinadvisable to purchase same.

Derogatorypersonal criticism is clearly against the forum site rules. However, even the use of the second person indelivering less unacceptable criticisms serves to bring focus on the personrather than just the action.

Oncesomeone takes umbrage at a personalised comment, be it explicit or inferred, itis only natural for them to go on the defensive, and often difficult to backaway from that position. Posts that continueto personalise exchanges under these circumstances are quite simply provocative,regardless of any higher moral ground. Unfortunatelymany contributed in this manner.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I don't think it took 4 pages to explain the potential problems Mike, it was made clear on the first page. The reaction to the comments posted on the first page took 3 pages to run out. Anyway, the thread has been locked.

Jamie

 

[Bluetongue1]

?You clearly have no idea of the potential damage you could have caused by passing these animals on to someone else - your second paragraph demonstrates a dangerous ignorance of these devastating viral diseases.? Given this quote from your initial response acknowledges that the individual concerned is very lacking in their knowledge and understandings in this area, I would question that the explanation of ?it simply increases the chance of spreading what may be a catastrophic viral disease into someone else's collection? provides the necessary understanding. Even taking into account the other posts on page 1, I do not consider that the issues were ?made clear?, as you put it. The posts while informative were just too narrow in their scope to adequately address the person?s severely limited knowledge of the subject. Your page 4 post was excellent and in conjunction with several intervening posts from others, collectively provided what I was referring to as ?a full comprehensive explanation?. The point I would make that people without the same background knowledge as those?in the know? require a more detailed explanation to develop a sound understanding of any given situation. Curt one-liners don?t really cut it.

...Anyway,the thread has been locked.

If this is genuinely representative of your current sentiments Jamie, why did you start this thread? I took no part in the original and only make reference to it in order to address comments made here.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Mike, I don't know why you insist on going through the entrails of many of the threads here, and dissecting everything down to the last minute detail. This isn't a court of law where my intent and style are on trial, or anybody else's for that matter. I have my own way of passing on info, based on decades of experience, with both reptiles and their keepers, you have yours, because you were a teacher. Maybe I'm a bit abrasive on some occasions, but I can say without reservation that many of the members I've had a go at on this site have become friends and supporters of what I have tried to do with my posting here. Since the relentless rise of Facebook, many of the "old timers" have deserted these sites and set up their own communities. I feel fortunate that I never have been captive to the Facebook thing (I see it as a massive time-waster) and am content to plod along in the steam age, and offer assistance or advice (occasionally delivered bluntly) where I feel it is appropriate. I'm not naive about the need to be blunt occasionally, nor am I a fan of ponderous, often pointless explanations.

I don't come to APS with the intent of being a great sage and all things to all people. I enjoy APS because sometimes there are things of great interest to me. Only as a secondary consideration does my experience allow me to contribute to some of the threads where I think my experience might be useful. That's just the way it is.

Jamie