Heat & light: tall tank

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BlueGecko

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Hi all,

I apologise as I know I've asked this before but am having issues with the search and "My Thread" tools.

I have a Morelia Bredli that I am planning on moving into a larger tank, and need quickish answers as a nearby shop has a renovation sale happening.

The tank is approx 90cm(h)x60x60

I need to know what wattages/strengths of UV (will be fluorescent bulb) and heat lamps to buy for this size tank - as it's tall, I don't want the bottom to be freezing but don't want the top to be scalding. I have a thermostat to control the hottest point but obviously don't want to rely on it too heavily.

Also, this is the first time decking out a tank of this size. Ideas on many hot spots (eg. heat mats/rocks) at different levels?
 
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Yeah no UV lighting needed although some people do prefer to use it as it has been known to enhance the colouring and patterns of the rep itself. Each to its own i would think i dont personally use them as its just extra hassle and all my snakes get time out in the sun frequently any way.
 
Depends on your fit out more then the size

We're kind of making it ourselves so could do whatever we want but the heat lamp will be in the roof of the tank. We picked up a 75watt basking light (just coz) and figured we'd put a platform about 20cm below? Does that sound about right?

We'll be using UV just because we have a spare UVB 2.0 fluro. No extra hassle and that's not very strong anyway.
 
If your making it then install the heat lamp first.
And then use a non contact lazer thermometer to find a suitable distance for your shelf.
Might be 22cm
Could be 27cm.

As long as you have a low and a high vent, the natural convection of heat will draw in cool air from the bottom.

My tank is 950mm high but 2.8m long :)
I use a 200w globe with a dimming thermostat running at about 43%.
So probably similar to a 75w globe.
 
If your making it then install the heat lamp first.
And then use a non contact lazer thermometer to find a suitable distance for your shelf.
Might be 22cm
Could be 27cm.

As long as you have a low and a high vent, the natural convection of heat will draw in cool air from the bottom.

My tank is 950mm high but 2.8m long :)
I use a 200w globe with a dimming thermostat running at about 43%.
So probably similar to a 75w globe.

That is a massive help - thank you!
 
Bredli are both terrestrial and arboreal, so it is a probably a good idea to provide heating at ground level as well. A 15W heat cord under a 30cm by 30cm slate tile will attain a stable surface temperature around 35[SUP]o[/SUP]C with room temperatures in the twenties. Such a heat tile is cheap to run and can remain on at night, if required, as it does not give out light and so will not disturb the required day/night lighting cycle. All UV globes reduce in their UV output with use, hence the need to replace them after 6 to 12 months. They can be used as ‘normal’ lights after that period as they still give out the same amount of visible light regardless. If the UV globe is new, consider buying a normal daylight globe as they are cheaper and keeping the UV globe for when it is needed. If it has already been used, then go for it.

It is a good to provide a hide at ground level. Coiled on an elevated forked branch near the ceiling, a carpet will feel secure, just like it does in a hide at ground level. The use of a platform is therefore optional and depends on personal preference..

By placing the top vent a bit down from the ceiling, you can trap a layer of warmer air at the very top of the cage. The following diagram illustrates the theory behind this. I have omitted the radiant heat source to make it easier to follow. The radiant heat source will contribute to the layer of warm air at the top of the enclosure in exactly the same way, as any air it warms up will rise upwards - see diagram below.

By the way, that size cage would be best suited to a snake up to 1.5m (or perhaps a little longer).
 
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Thanks. Advice on saving uvb fluro is appreciated. The tank will be full of branches etc so plenty for her to wrap up in. Also she is easily 1.5m so safe there too :)

One issue: the tank is glass on 5 sides with a mesh top so I can't really alter the ventilation (there is a ventilation strip near bottom). Will this be a problem?
 
so your bredli is already over 1.5m?

600x600x900 is to small in my opinion.

My bredli grew up in a 600d x 600h x 1500 long enclosure.

She is now 2.5 yr old at 2.7m long.
Hence why i just built her a 950h x 600d x 2650 internal size enclosure.
And she uses all of it.
She loves stretching out, which is obviously impossible in your display case.


Heating glass with a mesh roof is gonna be tuff to.
May be worth rethinking your plan.
 
Spikee posted while I was constructing this response but clearly we agree...

It sounds like you have an Exo Terra enclosure, which would make it 90 x 60 x 45cm (h x w x d). These are not well suited to keeping pythons and that size would be too small for a 1.5m specimen. Heat is readily lost by conduction through the glass and convection through the mesh top. The mesh top also means it is not possible to maintain a layer of warmed air.

To be bluntly honest, I feel you would be better off purchasing or making an appropriately sized glass-fronted enclosure. There are often reasonably priced second-hand units advertised. Use the fancy (and expensive) glass viv for something like tree frogs or climbing geckos, or perhaps flog it to defray the costs of a new purchase. I realise this is not what you were hoping to do but the welfare of the snake should come first. Sorry I cannot be more helpful than that.
 
Thanks guys,

I appreciate that you're trying to help but i promise you, i measured the tank and its 90x60x60. Bluetongue1 do you still think this size is ok for a 1.5m? Also I bought it 2nd hand so i don't really need to "defray the costs" of my fancy tank.

Is it possible for me to simply cover the mesh lid with something? And what did you mean when you said I'd be better off with a glass-fronted enclosure - isn't that what this tank is?

Thanks again.
 
If you re read bluetongue1's post he said a snake up to 1.5m.
Your bredli is allready past this.

This was my build for my bredli girl
Obviously i got a little carried away.
https://aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php/217437-New-insulated-enclosure-completed

- - - Updated - - -

Glass is very poor at keeping heat in unless its double glazed.
So 5 sided glass even with a solid roof will need constant heat 24x7 as it will loose heat extremely quickly.
 
By “glass-fronted enclosure” I am referring to one constructed mainly of timber, melamine, moulded plastic or similar, with the front wall containing glass for viewing the occupants – either sliding glass doors or a fixed pane. For example...
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Completely blocking the mesh at the top would only leave the front vent for air exchange and I doubt that would provide sufficient ventilation.

A rule of thumb for determining minimum cage dimensions for a python is that the cage width added to the cage depth should equal at least ¾ of the length of the snake. So your 60cm wide by 60cm deep enclosure would, at a pinch, be suitable for a 1.6m snake, but no bigger. Semi-arboreal snakes will also make use of increased cage height if it is provided, however the ground space should not be significantly reduced. Bear in mind these are minimum dimensions and it is desirable to provide more room than this where possible.
 
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yep, the enclosure you describe is quite unsuitable for your snake's needs for the reasons already mentioned, and it has the added dangerous disadvantage of a mesh top - mesh of any kind will act like a cheese grater on the reptile's nose if the snake becomes restless and begins pacing the enclosure, trying to get out. This is something that male pythons, especially, will do, during breeding season. Don't ever take the risk with mesh anywhere in an enclosure - the severe damage can happen in a few hours, and you may come home from work or wake up one morning to find the reptile's nose rubbed to a bloody stump.

One way of overcoming the problem of access to heat during cold weather in high enclosures is to use suitably sized black or dark coloured plastic tubs, which have an aperture cut into them for access, and suspend them from the top of the enclosure using suitably shaped aluminium sliders. The tubs usually have a moulded or shaped edge, and by attaching the aluminium or plastic angle carefully spaced onto the ceiling of the enclosure and sliding the tub into place (making sure the tub fits snugly up against the cage top), you'll have a perfect arboreal hide which remains warm because it's at the top of the enclosure. This works very well in colder weather for most of our semi arboreal pythons, which, I believe, often spend their winters in tree hollows

Jamie
 
Thanks Bluetongue1 that clears up a lot of things.

I just realised that I never mentioned that 3 sides of the tank will be lined with mdf and foam (water proofed, following a DIY that was on here). Will that make a difference to the heat containment?

Will have to reconsider the mesh top.
 
To some extent you can mitigate any problems caused by wire mesh ventilation by covering it on the inside with the soft fibreglass flywire available at Bunnings etc. This is far less abrasive than wire, but it won't help the convection heat-loss problem. When I've had similar issues, I've just covered the enclosure top with a towel to keep the heat in, but you must make sure that any potentially hot heating or lighting device is not too close to the towel.

Jamie
 
[MENTION=37338]BlueGecko[/MENTION]. That would certainly significantly reduce the heat loss through those walls.

While the heat retention issues can be addressed, this does not alter the fact that it will not take a long time for your snake to outgrow the size of this enclosure. Given that as an adult it will likely attain 2 to 2.5 m in length, it might be a better option to go for a cage size now that would accommodate a snake of this length. For a 2.5 m specimen that would be something like 120cm wide by 60cm deep by 60 to 100cm high. Alternatively, if you prefer a taller style enclosure, then a cage say 90cm wide by 60cm deep by 120cm high would do the trick.

Whether you put in the money and effort to re-fit and utilise the all-glass viv as an intermediate enclosure is entirely up to you. Just keep an eye on its growth and upsize as and when required.
 
Thanks all. Will measure snake accurately as the length I quoted was based on the estimate the vet wrote down and I'll go from there.
 
I found putting my bredli on the floor in the hallway worked well for determining length.
She straightened out along the skirting board and then i could just measure reference points along the skirting.
My halls 2.6m and shes off both ends so it fairly easy for me.

Asking her to lay straight normally is kinda tuff
 
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