Humidity control

Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum

Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Iguana

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
395
Reaction score
199
Location
Victoria
Hello everyone,
recently took my diamond python to a herp vet to check up on his skin and shedding problems.

I've been sent away with some instructions regarding husbandry,

The main problem is humidity, he must (vets orders) have newspaper substrate, which doesn't hold humidity at all. I'm supposed to be keeping the humidity between 40-60 when not in shed, and much higher when he is in shed. It's currently 30, and misting only makes the newspaper soggy/doesn't help humidity that much.

I'm planning on buying a more reliable hydrometer tomorrow.
I thought about getting a humidifier, but i'm not sure if they are okay to use in a melamine tank, because of the electrical and stuff, has anyone used one?

any advice is appreciated,
Thanks :)
 
What kind of skin problems?

I don't keep Diamond Pythons, so I don't know the amount of humidity they require. However, humidity in an enclosed area is largely controlled by a source of moisture (water bowl, misting, or substrate) and ventilation. What area do you live in? Is it humid or dry? How much ventilation do you have in your enclosure? High basking temperatures with excessive ventilation, in effect, can create a dehydration chamber. Problem shedding is generally linked to the python's hydration, and not the environment. Is it getting enough water? Personally, when my pythons are shedding I don't change the humidity at all and every time they shed perfectly.

If you want to change the humidity within your enclosure, try blocking off vents, using a different sized water bowl, or providing a moist hide. Alternatively, to help keep your python hydrated, offer it wet food items.
 
What kind of skin problems?

I don't keep Diamond Pythons, so I don't know the amount of humidity they require. However, humidity in an enclosed area is largely controlled by a source of moisture (water bowl, misting, or substrate) and ventilation. What area do you live in? Is it humid or dry? How much ventilation do you have in your enclosure? High basking temperatures with excessive ventilation, in effect, can create a dehydration chamber. Problem shedding is generally linked to the python's hydration, and not the environment. Is it getting enough water? Personally, when my pythons are shedding I don't change the humidity at all and every time they shed perfectly.

If you want to change the humidity within your enclosure, try blocking off vents, using a different sized water bowl, or providing a moist hide. Alternatively, to help keep your python hydrated, offer it wet food items.

They look very much like old burn scars, however since his lights are caged it's unlikely. The vet couldn't state for sure what caused it, so we are going through and eliminating variables, such as substrate, humidity, temp, diet ect, and he will get a checkup after his next shed.
Humidity is one of the things that we are investigating.
I know they don't need huge amounts of humidity, but because of the heating system we have the house is quite dry, this is why I suspect he has trouble shedding on his own. I can't really leave him to shed alone, he needs a soak at the minimum, for an okay shed. He has a large ceramic water bowl which he can fit in, and i've seen him drink out of it a handful of times. All prey items are fed soaking wet, so I can't do much else to get him to consume water.
His heat lamps I agree do dry out the enclosure, he has one main vent, which is facing the wall anyway, but ill wrap some foil over it.
 
If your python has shedding problems, then why is the vet suggesting lowering humidity by changing substrate?
A second water bowl (doesn't have to be as big) closer to the heat source will help with humidity. It probably is your house heating doing it. We had a racking system with our hatchies at our old house, which had ducted gas heating; the tubs closest to the vent were always drying out the water bowls, and those pythons had trouble shedding.
 
I can't say anything against the vet as I don't have a vet degree or anything special other than experience.
I keep Diamonds and to be totally honest I don't even look at humidity.

Shedding problems over winter are not uncommon due to reduced natural levels of humidity. Normally for those that are brumated its not a problem as they don't shed that often till the temps warm up again.

I would be soaking the food to make sure the animal is well hydrated rather than trying to abnormally raise the humidity. However if you want to raise humidity a larger water dish closer to the heat source works well or you can create a localised humid area with a damp towel in side a hide placed close to the heat source.
 
@pinefamily doesn't make too much sense to me either, but I suppose we are just seeing if for whatever reason the substrate or something in it is affecting him.
Would make sense about the heating, he is pretty close to a vent lol
Thanks for the tip about the second bowl, i'll give that a go.

@Pauls_Pythons He seemed to shed as soon as I increased the heating hours, but it was still pretty cold most of the time here, I guess it's still very dry outside.
He hasn't had a feed yet, but i'll make sure the next one is soaking. I'll give the damp towel thing a try next time he sheds, thanks!

Thanks for the information guys, hopefully this helps with his next shed!
 
More likely a temperature problem than a humidity problem. Carpets in general, including Diamonds, rarely if ever need added humidity. Ambient humidity is usually fine. I've never considered managing humidity for Carpets, and on the (very) rare occasion there's a shedding problem, I just put them in a closed tub of water for a few hours.

Jamie
 
Last edited:
i interpret the vets instruction to indicate that the current humidity is too high (wet). It implies that the current substrate is holding moisture which i assume is causing some sort of scale rot. Have you considered following your vets advice??
 
i interpret the vets instruction to indicate that the current humidity is too high (wet). It implies that the current substrate is holding moisture which i assume is causing some sort of scale rot. Have you considered following your vets advice??

Quite the opposite, the vet is saying that it's possible that the environment is too dry. At no point did he imply that I was keeping it too humid, but rather the opposite. He defently doesn't have scale rot as I asked about that specifically, and the wounds themselves are complely dry, and not red or open, like seen in scale rot. They look almost exactly like scars (his words)
I am following my vets advice completely, I would like my guy to heal quickly.

More likely a temperature problem than a humidity problem. Carpets in general, including Diamonds, rarely if ever need added humidity. Ambient humidity is usually fine. I've never considered managing humidity for Carpets, and on the (very) rare occasion there's a shedding problem, I just put them in a closed tub of water for a few hours.

Jamie

Yeah I agree, maybe it being too hot and dry is what's causing it. I know my other carpet python in a different part of the house is a great shedder, and I don't need to do anything. Whenever the time comes I try to soak him (the diamond) in warm water for half an hour, pre shed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
How would newspaper substrate increase humidity?

The substrate has been temporarily changed to newspaper to ensure that it's either not something in the substrate that is causing the issues, and to keep the enclosure clean while his skin is that way.
It's contradictory to try and raise the humidity while having newspaper substrate, I know lol but I'm jut going off what he told me.
 
Hi Iguana,

Personally I don't think your vet has any idea of what the problem is and to suggest raising the humidity in the enclosure just confirms to me that he has no real background in snake husbandry. It's hard to try and pinpoint the problem without pics of the critter or the setup but as Jamie and Paul's Pythons have already stated if the enclosure is set up correctly then ambient humidity should be sufficient without the need to soak or spray the snake pre shed. From personal experience I have found that dehydration is usually associated with the enclosure being far to hot or the snake not being provided with a sufficient diet and/or the lack of clean drinking water.

Improper shedding is called Dysecdysis and can be due to things like parasites, malnutrition, infection, metabolic irregularities, tumors but more commonly it is a result of not providing the correct environment for the snake to maintain the correct hydration levels.

I trust the vet asked questions such as; How long has the snake been experiencing the problem? Is it ongoing or just happens on the odd occasion? How is the enclosure set up? What are you using for a heat source and where is it positioned in the enclosure? Does the enclosure provide a heat gradient? Is it fed regularly and are the food items sufficient to avoid malnutrition? Is the snake provided with regular clean drinking water? When did the injuries that caused the scarring happen?

IMO: If the snake has scars that suggest they are a result of burns then it may be possible that the sake is suffering from an ongoing and undiagnosed infection, but I believe that, from the information you have provided, it is probably a result of the snake not hydrating properly. I note that you have said that the heating system for the house keeps it quite dry and if your other snake is not experiencing shedding problems then this could be affecting the ambient humidity in the location of the house where you have the snake. If the snake is hydrated properly there should be no need to soak food items. I also notice that you said that you provide a water bowl that is big enough for the snake to soak and that you've seen it drink from the bowl on a handful of occasions but do you provide a separate a smaller water bowl for the snake to drink from. I've found that some snakes, having soaked in a bowl, can be reluctant to drink from the said bowl but will rehydrate by drinking from a separate smaller bowl that can be topped up with fresh water regularly.

I'd try relocating the enclosure to a different part of the house and providing a separate drinking bowl and if this doesn't work then maybe consider blood tests to see if it is suffering from an infection.

I'd like to add that without viewing the snake, enclosure and the location where it is set up that this is just my opinion based on my knowledge and experience in snake husbandry and sincerely hope the snake recovers soon.

Cheers,

George.
 
Last edited:
what substrate were you using?

Kritters crumble, the smaller size. Sometimes coconut husk is mixed in too.

Hi Iguana,

Personally I don't think your vet has any idea of what the problem is and to suggest raising the humidity in the enclosure just confirms to me that he has no real background in snake husbandry. It's hard to try and pinpoint the problem without pics of the critter or the setup but as Jamie and Paul's Pythons have already stated if the enclosure is set up correctly then ambient humidity should be sufficient without the need to soak or spray the snake pre shed. From personal experience I have found that it is usually associated with dehydration as a result of the enclosure being far to hot or the snake not being provided with a sufficient diet and/or the lack of clean drinking water.

Improper shedding is called Dysecdysis and can be due to things like parasites, malnutrition, infection, metabolic irregularities, tumors but more commonly it is a result of not providing the correct environment for the snake to maintain the correct hydration levels.

I trust the vet asked questions such as; How long has the snake been experiencing the problem? Is it ongoing or just happens on the odd occasion? How is the enclosure set up? What are you using for a heat source and where is it positioned in the enclosure? Does the enclosure provide a heat gradient? Is it fed regularly and are the food items sufficient to avoid malnutrition? Is the snake provided with regular clean drinking water? When did the injuries that caused the scarring happen?

IMO: If the snake has scars that suggest they are a result of burns then it may be possible that the sake is suffering from an ongoing and undiagnosed infection, but I believe that, from the information you have provided, it is probably a result of the snake not hydrating properly. I note that you have said that the heating system for the house keeps it quite dry and if your other snake is not experiencing shedding problems then this could be affecting the ambient humidity in the location of the house where you have the snake. If the snake is hydrated properly there should be no need to soak food items. I also notice that you said that you provide a water bowl that is big enough for the snake to soak and that you've seen it drink from the bowl on a handful of occasions but do you provide a separate a smaller water bowl for the snake to drink from. I've found that some snakes, having soaked in a bowl, can be reluctant to drink from the said bowl but will rehydrate by drinking from a separate smaller bowl that can be topped up with fresh water regularly.

I'd try relocating the enclosure to a different part of the house and providing a separate drinking bowl and if this doesn't work then maybe consider blood tests to see if it is suffering from an infection.

I'd like to add that without viewing the snake, enclosure and the location where it is set up that this is just my opinion based on my knowledge and experience in snake husbandry and sincerely hope the snake recovers soon.

Cheers,

George.

Hi George,
thank you for this long detailed post and for your insight, I agree with pretty much everything you've said, and when you explain it this way it makes a lot of sense.
I agree that the vet has no idea what the issue is, neither do I! But he does know what he's talking about, just maybe not with this so much. It seems like everything that should be causing this issue, isn't, if that makes sense. For these types of skin marks he expected the light to be uncaged, which they aren't. He did ask pretty much all the questions you listed, I even had to fill out a questionnaire sheet lol We are just both stumped. He is due for a checkup after his next shed, and if there is no improvement he's getting a blood test.

I would think that if they are infection they would be open and weeping, unless that's not always how they show? He seems in pretty good heath otherwise. I think I should also mention that he wraps around his light cage frequently, but they don't feel hot enough to burn. Unless snakes can still burn from that? But even then there's no 'inbetween phase' it's just straight to scars, no open burns.

From your information I agree that he likely is dehydrated then, it would make a lot of sense and explain things. I'm already putting in another smaller water bowl for humidity, so hopefully he drinks from that one instead.

I'm more than happy to provide some photos of his enclosure and skin if you'd like to take a look?

Thanks again,
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey Iguana,

Okay, if the snake is wrapping itself around the light cage then that means that it can not thermoregulate easily and reach its preferred body temperature at the basking spot provided in a comfortable manner or within a reasonable time. This is usually because either; the basking light is too far away from the basking spot, the voltage of the light providing the heat is not strong enough and/or the diameter of the area where the heat is concentrated is too small for the snake to expose enough of its body to thermoregulate over a suitable period of time. Sometimes this is the case when the basking spot is too close to the light and the the heat is concentrated in a small area not large enough for the snake to expose enough of its body to heat itself and if the snake has easy access to the light (and/or cage) it will wrap itself around the cage (and sometime when there is no cage, the light itself) to get as close to the heat source as possible to reach the temperature it requires.

Being so close to the light will contribute to the snake dehydrating and you can be assured that it will suffer burns (however slight) through being in contact with a hot wire cage surrounding the light. It may only appear as scarring on the skin of the snake without visible signs of infection (more like the skin has melted) but it can be serious enough to cause undetected internal injuries especially if it comes in contact with the cage on a regular basis and there is a possibility that this might be what's happening to your critter and as such, whether it is or not, I'd suggest that you may have to reconsider the layout of the cage furnishings.

Cheers,

George.

P.s. I wouldn't mind having a gander at the scars and the enclosure if you'd like to put some up. They may be able to provide a bit of an idea of what's going on and you might be able to get a bit more feedback from other members.
 
100% agree with George. (Sorry I missed the comment about the animal wrapping itself around the cage).
Light cages come in different sizes offering different distances from the heat source. You might have the wrong sized cage and the snakes behaviour suggests the heat you are providing is not sufficient.
If the cage feels hot to the touch its hot enough to cause burns over a long period. Burns are pretty easy to recognise so adding a pic would make things fairly easy to clear this up.
 
@GBWhite I agree, I only noticed him wrapping around not too long ago, since i'm not home all the time. And I reckon that you were right in that he wasn't getting the right temp, the heat lamp voltage is pretty low, and as he's gotten bigger he's having trouble fitting under there lol. So, as of last thursday I added an extra globe, its the smaller purple one on the right, it's a low wattage 'night globe' and i think it's done the trick, he doesn't seem to wrapping the heat lights, but will sometimes reach onto the tube light. I don't know if that's as bad, as the tube stays pretty cool. But the extra globe definitely drys the tank out a lot, maybe it's too small of a tank for 2 lights? Its a 4X2X2
Do you think the basking spot is too close to the cage? It's a couple inches away from his back usually, but it makes sense because a majority of the marks are on his back/side. Hopefully it's not something as serious as internal injuries! Should I request an XRay do you think?
I've attached some images, if you think anything in the tank needs changing please let me know, especially the branch under the heat lamp. I suspect that I may be getting him a bigger tank soon anyways, a 3ft high and 4ft long hopefully.
Thanks for the reply, hopefully the images help :)

@Pauls_Pythons You make a good point, I think I may get a bigger cage for the light, it seems a little small now that you bring it up. I'm looking into getting him a bigger cage with better heating hopefully.
The light cage isn't 'hot', I can comfortably touch it for awhile while the light has been on for awhile. But since he is sitting under it for hours at a time it may be a different story for him.

Here are some pictures I took about a week ago for the vet, the enclosure set up is a little different now since i've cleaned it (decor gets swapped + changed everytime) But the basking spot branch stays the same. These are just what I had on hand, but if anyone would like more of his tank or his skin, I can take more next time he is out.
I should also mention that I only noticed all these marks after he shed, before his shed there weren't as many and not this bad.
Please excuse the mess around the tank!

IMG_3927.JPG IMG_3928.JPG IMG_3931.JPG IMG_3929.JPG IMG_3926.JPG
 
Look like burns to me buddy and those cages are too small, (Too close to the heat source)
When I get chance I will PM you pics of my set up if it might help. I only have a 60w globe for a heat source but my enclosures are quite large.

argh heck, yeah that's what I thought :/ But good to finally know what's causing it. I'll get some new heat cages ASAP.
I'd really appreciate that thanks! I think I may have to start from scratch. I'm not sure about the exact wattage but it's around 40 I think, I haven't found any bayonet globes higher than that. I think a 60w may be too much for a small tank
 
This is one pic I can find at the moment. I couldn't PM it for some reason.
1800 high, 1200 wide and 600 deep,

This is when it was first built and without branches which run across the width of the enclosure at 2 heights for climbing.
I don't use the slate under the light any longer as I found they prefer to use the ledge above the light to bask.


Diamond Enclosures.JPG
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top