WA and Bearded dragons

[Daydreamer]

hi
I'm new and just learning about reptiles, but does anyone know if central bearded dragons will ever be aloud in WA? I mean we can have dwarf bearded dragons but not the larger ones? I tried to ask dpaw if we could get a permit but they said no because they aren't local to wa and only zoos can keep a permit to have them but not pet keepers and I don't really understand why we can't bring them here I mean surly it wouldn't threaten the Eco system because I assume the dwarf bearded dragons and the central ones eat the same thing and everything? I guess the temperature would be a little different? Or maybe is there a way to get the dpaw to consider them? Or something? Does anyone know?

 

[Bluetongue1]

Having been integrally involved in the introduction of reptiles as pets in WA and in drafting keeping lists, I can assure you that introduction of non-endemic species of reptiles to WA keeping is simply not going to happen. There are several reasons for this, some rational and some not.

As it is, despite agreement from the late Director General of CALM and the previous Director of the Nature Conservation Branch, the introduction of additional local species to the WA keeping lists has been stymied in the last year or so by current elements within DPaW. It would seem that those in a position of influence within the Science and Conservation Division would rather the keeping of reptiles as pets was not allowed in WA.

 

[Daydreamer]

Ah okay I see. Still I feel like the rest of Australia can keep reptiles fine and there hasn't really been a problem it's just WA, and I can understand why they wouldn't want reptiles to be kept as pets because they are wild animals but at the same time there are already ones that are captive bred in other states I guess it's just if they escaped their enclosure or something that would be the problem but surly if that happened the bearded dragons I mean they would be just like the dwarf ones and eat the same things ect... but anyways, lol sorry I'm just putting my thoughts about it online because it was bothering me. And a rant lol. but Thank you for enlightening me about it

 

[Imported_tuatara]

no- that's not why. if that was the case they'd just ban the taking of wild specimens from the wild, and instead make it so only captive bred animals are allowed.

 

[ronhalling]

Popcorn time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -ronhalling-

 

[Daydreamer]

hmm okay, so why then?

 

[Yellowtail]

Having been integrally involved in the introduction of reptiles as pets in WA and in drafting keeping lists, I can assure you that introduction of non-endemic species of reptiles to WA keeping is simply not going to happen. There are several reasons for this, some rational and some not.

As it is, despite agreement from the late Director General of CALM and the previous Director of the Nature Conservation Branch, the introduction of additional local species to the WA keeping lists has been stymied in the last year or so by current elements within DPaW. It would seem that those in a position of influence within the Science and Conservation Division would rather the keeping of reptiles as pets was not allowed in WA.

Just curious Bluetongue1 but you seem to know a bit about it, I left WA as a teenager in 1960 and way back then the keeping of native animals including reptiles as pets was quite popular and encouraged in some schools, it was seen by its supporters as educational and better than the redneck attitude of killing snakes on sight and treating most animals as pests to be eradicated. It was not regulated in any way despite the fact even bicycles were licensed in those days. Since then SW forests were cut down, the coastal plain bulldozed (how many reptiles killed) and vast areas of natural habitat developed for housing and how many reptiles perished in the massive mining projects, that's ok but keeping a reptile as a pet became a crime.
Now it is considered inevitable that the cane toad invasion will destroy a high percentage of reptiles in the north but keeping some of them in private collections in WA is forbidden. ???

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

When it comes to reptiles... their licensing systems and laws, Western Australia and Victoria get this reaction from me...

 

[dragonlover1]

Having been integrally involved in the introduction of reptiles as pets in WA and in drafting keeping lists, I can assure you that introduction of non-endemic species of reptiles to WA keeping is simply not going to happen. There are several reasons for this, some rational and some not.

As it is, despite agreement from the late Director General of CALM and the previous Director of the Nature Conservation Branch, the introduction of additional local species to the WA keeping lists has been stymied in the last year or so by current elements within DPaW. It would seem that those in a position of influence within the Science and Conservation Division would rather the keeping of reptiles as pets was not allowed in WA.

Typical attitude from BOOFOCRATS who have no idea !!!!

Just curious Bluetongue1 but you seem to know a bit about it, I left WA as a teenager in 1960 and way back then the keeping of native animals including reptiles as pets was quite popular and encouraged in some schools, it was seen by its supporters as educational and better than the redneck attitude of killing snakes on sight and treating most animals as pests to be eradicated. It was not regulated in any way despite the fact even bicycles were licensed in those days. Since then SW forests were cut down, the coastal plain bulldozed (how many reptiles killed) and vast areas of natural habitat developed for housing and how many reptiles perished in the massive mining projects, that's ok but keeping a reptile as a pet became a crime.
Now it is considered inevitable that the cane toad invasion will destroy a high percentage of reptiles in the north but keeping some of them in private collections in WA is forbidden. ???

This is where the govt argument falls apart,surely it is better for the future of reptiles etc. if they are held in private collections? Then there will be live samples of every creature when there is nothing left in the wild.We then have a chance of repopulating the country with what is supposed to be out there.
Or am I just a D***head ?

 

[Scutellatus]

This is where the govt argument falls apart,surely it is better for the future of reptiles etc. if they are held in private collections? Then there will be live samples of every creature when there is nothing left in the wild.We then have a chance of repopulating the country with what is supposed to be out there.
Or am I just a D***head ?

Definitely the latter Dragon. Hahaha.
Seriously though what you suggest is a good idea apart from the fact that once they are gone from the wild whatever it is that has killed them all will still remain. We won't be able to release anything to repopulate the eco system without dealing with the cause first. This is a battle we have already lost. Maybe they can build a 'cane toad proof fence' around the whole border of Western Australia.

 

[Wally]

Typical attitude from BOOFOCRATS who have no idea !!!!


This is where the govt argument falls apart,surely it is better for the future of reptiles etc. if they are held in private collections? Then there will be live samples of every creature when there is nothing left in the wild.We then have a chance of repopulating the country with what is supposed to be out there.
Or am I just a D***head ?

Once we've spent an age discussing why they've disappeared in the first place it's probably going to be too late to correct those issues.

Privately owned fauna are rarely if ever used in re population programs in oz.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Definitely the latter Dragon. Hahaha.
Seriously though what you suggest is a good idea apart from the fact that once they are gone from the wild whatever it is that has killed them all will still remain. We won't be able to release anything to repopulate the eco system without dealing with the cause first. This is a battle we have already lost. Maybe they can build a 'cane toad proof fence' around the whole border of Western Australia.

Pretty much like the Lake Eacham Rainbow fish... they are extinct or at least thought to be in the wild (Lake Eacham) thanks to illegally introduced (in the 80's) Barred Grunter (Amniataba percoides) and Mouth Almighty (Glossamia aprion). They exist in aquarist's private collections, however, the gene pool would be severely depleted.

 

[Buggster]

I guess it's just if they escaped their enclosure or something that would be the problem but surly if that happened the bearded dragons I mean they would be just like the dwarf ones and eat the same things ect...

I’m pretty sure that’s the reason they don’t want them...
If and when they escape (because let’s be real, it happens more than people will admit), the larger dragons will outcompete the smaller ones. As they have pretty much identical needs, the larger dragons will thrive and bully the smaller ones off food and territory.
Then suddenly all the smaller ones have no food and no place to live.

While it does seem a bit rigid, I can understand where they might be coming from (but at the same time I’m very grateful to be in NSW and have very little restrictions)

 

[dragonlover1]

I get what you guys are saying but I still think that what people have in private collections,zoos etc. will surely save these creatures from extinction if not rebuilding wild populations.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

I get what you guys are saying but I still think that what people have in private collections,zoos etc. will surely save these creatures from extinction if not rebuilding wild populations.

Pretty sure this is what the Taronga Zoo is currently doing with the Bellinger River turtle which was almost wiped out by an aggressive virus a couple of years ago.

 

[ronhalling]

Well this did not go off like i thought it would when @Bluetongue1 was contradicted lol.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -ronhalling-


.

 

[GBWhite]

I get what you guys are saying but I still think that what people have in private collections,zoos etc. will surely save these creatures from extinction if not rebuilding wild populations.

It's very doubtful that recovery plans will include the assistance of private collection but as Kev alluded there is a program currently in place at a couple of Zoos in an attempt to repopulate the Bellinger River Turtle which suffered an estimated 90% mass mortality event in 2015 as a result of a new unidentified iridovirus which now carries the label of the Bellinger River Virus (BRV).

The recovery plan includes "headstarting" (a process whereby healthy adult turtles are collected from the river and bread in captivity with the intention to release juveniles back into the wild in the hope of rebuilding the the population). This is being undertaken, under very strict quarantine at Taronga and Symbio Zoos. The head scientist predicts that provided no further catastrophic events (such as a recurrence of the virus) happen that it will take at least 100 years and maybe as long as 200 years for the population to recover. He has also stated that as much as identification is important, it is far more important to understand why the event happened when it did. At this stage they don't know why it happened or how the virus was introduced to the river in the first place. I've also been told by a friend that is involved with the ongoing surveillance of the species that it appears the recovery team have virtually abandoned investigating why it happened and are concentrating on ongoing surveillance of those that remain in the river and the breeding program. It seems odd to me that they would consider releasing any juveniles without confirming the reason for or the origin of the original outbreak.

Information indicates that successful matings and production of juveniles occurred last breeding season but as far as I'm aware no juveniles have been released back into the wild at this stage.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Information indicates that successful matings and production of juveniles occurred last breeding season but as far as I'm aware no juveniles have been released back into the wild at this stage.

Since the outbreak, healthy juvenile turtles, not showing any symptoms of the virus have been located within the Bellinger river system. The recovery, as you mentioned is going to be a very, very long one. The introduced Murray River turtle will have a significant detrimental impact on the species' recovery.

 

[GBWhite]

Since the outbreak, healthy juvenile turtles, not showing any symptoms of the virus have been located within the Bellinger river system. The recovery, as you mentioned is going to be a very, very long one. The introduced Murray River turtle will have a significant detrimental impact on the species' recovery.

Yeah I know. I live in Bellingen.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Yeah I know. I live in Bellingen.

From 1986 - 2003 I lived in the upper Macleay Valley, west of Kempsey... Top part of the world, I know the Macleay, Clarence, Hastings, Hunter and Bellinger systems like the back of my hand.