New pythons. No idea.

[Murko93]

Hey all,
So I've recently acquired my first ever python. 2 of them in fact. I've always wanted to own a python but because of my angel of a mother's disgust at them was never able to until I moved out of home.
So I acquired these two beauties unexpectedly while trying to sell a fish tank and someone offered to swap me a Darwin carpet and coastal carpet with enclosure etc. Obviously jumped at the offer.
As far as I know based off the information of the previous owner they are both approximately 3 years old and are both male. They can't be handled together for whatever reason, and the enclosure is split in half because of this. The Darwin carpet has "never had a water bowl" in his half of the enclosure which is slightly larger and on the bottom. They both shed, eat and handle well.
HERES WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.

1. Why would he have never had a water bowl and should I add one?

2. Why can't I let them interact?

3. Why does the Darwin hiss at me when I try to remove him from his enclosure then stop once he's out? (mostly anyway)

4. Why do they seem so inquisitive of my face when handling? They always start off trying to escape or explore, then start wrapping around my arms etc, then move towards my face. And when they get near ny face they seem to tense up, get squirmy and start hissing? However I've read that tongue flickering is a good way to tell if they're feeling defensive or just curious. Long slow flickering = curious, short and fast flickering = stress or defensive? Dunno if that's true but they both seem to do a lot of long slow flickers when handling and even when hissing near my face so not sure if it's a sign to put them back or what? Very confused about that one and honestly a little frightened.

I have a lot of other questions but I'll get to those later if need be.

I've had them for about 10 days now, handled them both from the day after I got them home, fed them on the 7Th day, gave them 24ish hours before handling again.

I'm just really confused so any in depth advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Stompsy]

Hey all,
So I've recently acquired my first ever python. 2 of them in fact. I've always wanted to own a python but because of my angel of a mother's disgust at them was never able to until I moved out of home.
So I acquired these two beauties unexpectedly while trying to sell a fish tank and someone offered to swap me a Darwin carpet and coastal carpet with enclosure etc. Obviously jumped at the offer.
As far as I know based off the information of the previous owner they are both approximately 3 years old and are both male. They can't be handled together for whatever reason, and the enclosure is split in half because of this. The Darwin carpet has "never had a water bowl" in his half of the enclosure which is slightly larger and on the bottom. They both shed, eat and handle well.
HERES WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.

1. Why would he have never had a water bowl and should I add one?

YES! A picture of the enclosure could go a long way to determining why he never had a water bowl in with the Darwin. But regardless, it’s required.

2. Why can't I let them interact?

He was correct in advising that the two can’t be housed together/shouldn’t interact. Snakes aren’t like humans and don’t really enjoy the company of other snakes. And there’s always a risk of one lashing out at the other. They are best housed separately and kept apart when handling.

3. Why does the Darwin hiss at me when I try to remove him from his enclosure then stop once he's out? (mostly anyway)

This could be defensive? A lot of snakes are cage defensive and then chill out once removed from the enclosure. Someone else may have another explanation?!?

4. Why do they seem so inquisitive of my face when handling? They always start off trying to escape or explore, then start wrapping around my arms etc, then move towards my face. And when they get near ny face they seem to tense up, get squirmy and start hissing? However I've read that tongue flickering is a good way to tell if they're feeling defensive or just curious. Long slow flickering = curious, short and fast flickering = stress or defensive? Dunno if that's true but they both seem to do a lot of long slow flickers when handling and even when hissing near my face so not sure if it's a sign to put them back or what? Very confused about that one and honestly a little frightened.

I have a lot of other questions but I'll get to those later if need be.

I've had them for about 10 days now, handled them both from the day after I got them home, fed them on the 7Th day, gave them 24ish hours before handling again.

I'm just really confused so any in depth advice would be much appreciated.

I’m not sure why they would hiss once they approach your face, however it’s advisable to not let them get that close anyway. If they did decide to bite, you’d unlikely be able to dodge the incoming attack.

The Tongue flick thing I’ve never heard of but it does make sense. Usually if a snake is in defensive mode, it will ‘s’ up ready to strike, so a tongue flick might not be the best indication.

My advice would be to keep them moving when handling, if they try to approach your face, move your free hand slowly underneath their body and steer them away without grabbing at them.

Once again, a picture of the enclosure would go a long way in getting proper advice.

 

[Murko93]

For some reason it keeps telling me that the file is too big when I try to upload the picture and I don't know how to fix it haha.

It's like an old timber cabinet, glass on 3 sides, timber back, and all timber trim and window frames etc. It's separated in thirds, the bottom being two thirds the total space of the cabinet, top is obviously one third, and the Darwin is in the bottom two thirds. Dimensions I'm not sure of but it's roughly a foot deep, 3-4 feet across and about 6 feet high. I don't know if that helps at all, otherwise if you know a trick to upload images that are "too large" I can try again.

I've also just noticed something while removing them both to clean the enclosure. The coastal carpet may not actually be a carpet at all, but I'm far from an expert. He's a lot fatter, and longer than the Darwin, but has a much smaller head, and I'm assuming carpets of different types would all have the same aesthetics, ie head shape and size in regards to their body size and all that. Again, if you have any cheeky tricks to uploading pictures I have pictures of both pythons.

 

[Bl69aze]

My explanation is the “hissing” is a “what is happening?!!” And or they were asleep so the sudden touching spooked them.

As for water bowl, I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to not provide a constant water source 24/7 even if they won’t use it.

He MAY have been spraying it with water but this would be unnecessary for a darwin I suppose so who knows


To upload “files too big” use imgbb.com and upload the pics there then copy paste the link it providea when done

 

[Stompsy]

For some reason it keeps telling me that the file is too big when I try to upload the picture and I don't know how to fix it haha.

It's like an old timber cabinet, glass on 3 sides, timber back, and all timber trim and window frames etc. It's separated in thirds, the bottom being two thirds the total space of the cabinet, top is obviously one third, and the Darwin is in the bottom two thirds. Dimensions I'm not sure of but it's roughly a foot deep, 3-4 feet across and about 6 feet high. I don't know if that helps at all, otherwise if you know a trick to upload images that are "too large" I can try again.

I've also just noticed something while removing them both to clean the enclosure. The coastal carpet may not actually be a carpet at all, but I'm far from an expert. He's a lot fatter, and longer than the Darwin, but has a much smaller head, and I'm assuming carpets of different types would all have the same aesthetics, ie head shape and size in regards to their body size and all that. Again, if you have any cheeky tricks to uploading pictures I have pictures of both pythons.

If you’re trying to upload pictures from a phone, try screenshotting the image and upload the copy. Pictures of the snakes themselves would help also.

 

[Buggster]

Re image. You can always take a screenshot of the image and post that. File size of screenshots tends to be smaller.


1. Add one now. Snakes can easily become dehydrated and suffer as a result. The only reason I can think of removing the water bowl is to reduce humidity (although this should only be a temporary measure)


2. Snakes aren’t social. They’re just as likely to kill each other as they are to get along. Having them out together while you’re supervising isn’t all that risky however, provided you are confident enough in handling them together


3. Most snakes are ‘cage defensive’. They want to defend their space or simply just not be able to tell who or what you are. With incredibly poor eyesight, if you suddenly a wake a snake they may mistake you for a predator and lash out in self defence.


4. Arboreal snakes (or semi-arboreal in your case) like to move up high, hence why they’re trying to get to your head, the highest point on your body. Random hissing like that is very unusal- can you better describe the hissing? Are they deep breathing and hissing, or is it more of a whistling sound?
And for tongue flicking, I always was told a lack of tongue flicking indicated stress. A relaxed snake is content and ready to explore their environment. A stressed snake is more concerned with moving away as fast as possible


I’m finding your arrangements a bit odd. Coastal do get considerably bigger than Darwin’s, so I would expect it would prefer the bigger enclosure...

 

[Murko93]

The hissing sounds they make, to me, sound like stress, and the body language (quickly moving, tensing and squirming) makes me think stress as well. I feel totally confident handling them, they don't seem to shy away when I move towards their heads, and sometimes they even move gently towards my hands when I approach the head, tongue out, have a probe then continue about their business. However when they move towards my head/face I feel a bit concerned as their mood I guess you could call it, seems changes from calm to frantic, then the hissing starts. It's usually a series of quick loud hisses that trail off, sometimes quick hissing, and they continue to hiss until I get them away from my face. Maybe I'm just really ugly, idk.

As for the enclosure, would it be safe to change them around?

These are the links to the pictures (If it works).
The enclosure probably isn't the best, any tips for making it better would be aporeciatex, but finances permitting in the next couple weeks I'm planing to upgrade anyway.

And identifying them both would be great as the information given by the previous owner, so far, has been very misleading, so i don't even know exactly what I have here.

 

[Bl69aze]

Straight up, they need hides. a cheap cat litter tray with a hole cut in the side for access works perfectly.

definitely looks like a coastal.

the other python (one on top) does not look like a Darwin however but might just be me, or he is going into shed mode and is very dull colour.

they could definitely use more climbing by putting branches horizontal. are the red bulbs providing heat? if so you should get a thermometer to make sure temperatures are reaching correct temps, as it doesnt look like theres a hot spot.

 

[Murko93]

Well the one in the top half of the enclosure (the darker of the two) was the one I was told is a coastal carpet, and the bottom, lighter coloured one the Darwin. The lighter one has a relatively large head compared to the other, but is smaller in body size. I'd have thought the larger one would have had a bigger head. Hence the confusion, perhaps the darker one is not a carpet but again, I can't be sure, I was told he is though.

There's a thermo and a humidity thing in both enclosures, the temp stays around 25-30 as far as I can tell, I check it pretty often as I walk past, but I can't be sure of a night, the lights are on a timer at the moment and run from 6pm till 6am so hopefully they don't get too hot of a night, the hottest ive seen it so far is about 31-32 and that was with the lights on during the day, so I know I need to get a thermostat, and a uvb light too I was told at the pet shop.

 

[Bl69aze]

Well the one in the top half of the enclosure (the darker of the two) was the one I was told is a coastal carpet, and the bottom, lighter coloured one the Darwin. The lighter one has a relatively large head compared to the other, but is smaller in body size. I'd have thought the larger one would have had a bigger head. Hence the confusion, perhaps the darker one is not a carpet but again, I can't be sure, I was told he is though.

There's a thermo and a humidity thing in both enclosures, the temp stays around 25-30 as far as I can tell, I check it pretty often as I walk past, but I can't be sure of a night, the lights are on a timer at the moment and run from 6pm till 6am so hopefully they don't get too hot of a night, the hottest ive seen it so far is about 31-32 and that was with the lights on during the day, so I know I need to get a thermostat, and a uvb light too I was told at the pet shop.

The bottom one is definitely a coastal.

Temps sound fine.

You don’t need UV of any kind. For carpet pythons, while it won’t hurt them, it also does not benefit them, especially if you are getting them out for a run anyway. Classic pet shops always trying to sell items you don’t need to make more $$$

Again, hides are a must.

 

[Murko93]

I'll get onto the hides tomorrow.

So the lighter sandy coloured one is a coastal carpet, not a Darwin carpet?

 

[Bl69aze]

I'll get onto the hides tomorrow.

So the lighter sandy coloured one is a coastal carpet, not a Darwin carpet?

This ones a coastal

 

[Allan]

The main reason for keeping Carpet males apart is that pretty soon the mating season starts and regardless if there is a female around, combat is likely to start.

 

[dragonlover1]

I can't see any pics but we have both Darwin and Coastal amongst others,The coastal will end up being the bigger of the 2 ( our girl is about 7' long now ) For starters you don't want 2 males together as they will fight.Most reptiles live solitary lives and only come together to fight or mate.

 

[Bl69aze]

I can't see any pics but we have both Darwin and Coastal amongst others,The coastal will end up being the bigger of the 2 ( our girl is about 7' long now ) For starters you don't want 2 males together as they will fight.Most reptiles live solitary lives and only come together to fight or mate.

There’s links at the bottom of one of his posts

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Hey Murko, excuse my raising this but just wondering if you are a licensed keeper?

 

[SpottedPythons]

I have noticed that when relaxed, snakes do a long slow tongue flick, when looking for food, a long fast flick, and when stressed, a short fast flick. And as for the hissing, some snakes (most common with Aspidites) hiss as they breathe. It's a very quiet sound, so maybe they're actually not hissing any more than normal, but rather you can hear it better close to your face?
[doublepost=1523225991,1523225599][/doublepost]And the darker one looks quite a bit like a Murray Darling carpet python (though it could be a strangely patterned coastal) , and the bottom one I'm unsure about, but definitely doesn't look like a Darwin. Perhaps a South western?

 

[Yellowtail]

Murko this may appear harsh to you but the animals welfare here must be the priority and basic research (like get a good book) should have been done before getting the pythons. This would have explained the issues with housing 2 pythons together and the requirement for clean water regularly.
Reading this book (or others) will give you some understanding of keeping and caring for pythons, then you will be able to ask further questions on this site. If you are not prepared to invest the price of a book you should not be keeping animals that are totally dependant on you to survive.

 

[Murko93]

Hey Murko, excuse my raising this but just wondering if you are a licensed keeper?

No don't have a license as of yet. And before anyone has a mental breakdown, I do have every intention of getting one as soon as possible. Not sure how I go about getting one though, I know there was an office you could go and get one where I used to live but unsure about where I live now.

 

[Bl69aze]

No don't have a license as of yet. And before anyone has a mental breakdown, I do have every intention of getting one as soon as possible. Not sure how I go about getting one though, I know there was an office you could go and get one where I used to live but unsure about where I live now.

You can apply for one online or some pet shops can set you up with one (Kvp does)