Albino BHP

[Pauls_Pythons]

Neither they nor the Olives have ever changed. The Olives were never all that bad, but as bad as they were, they still are. The 'spotteds' (which aren't really spotteds) will always have the same problems, and outcrossing will never help improve them, neither will it ever improve the Olives.

Im hearing what you are saying and I know your genetics background but I dont understand how if this is correct that we now regularly see more and more of these 2 albino lines being bred with little to no loss during or shortly after hatching. (Or are breeders not having the success that they claim and are just breeding from an increasing number of stock animals?)

I remember the first 3 seasons or so people were breeding the albino mac's (or trying at least) and almost all the young that hatched died within a maximum period of 3-4 months. Now we see them for sale on a regular basis and the breeders suggest the success they have had is because they have out crossed to strengthen the gene.
Albino olives are now quite regularly bred from Albino x Albino pairings with little to no issues in the offspring whereas 5 years or so ago all the albinos were from het x het pairings because the genes were so weak.

It's amazing how many ridiculous lies there are, how little sense they make (admittedly, non geneticists wouldn't understand that they don't make sense)

Can you explain so a non geneticist such as myself can understand because it isn't making sense unless there is some other magical way to 'fix' the problems with albino's that breeders of these animals use.....maybe witchcraft or magic potions and Im honestly not trying to be a jerk I just want to understand.

 

[Mick666]

Peter Birch seems to have had success with out crossing albino macs. He has out crossed with his striped line that was hatching healthy, hungry babies. It makes sense to me, that you can add a line like that into a project. If we can add stripes to them, why not other traits, like healthy eaters?
I'm planning on a het to het pairing next year, so I'd love to know more about this mutation.

This is the albino mac update video...

 

[swampie]

I’ve had pretty good success with the albino Macs also, I’ve bred albino to albino 3 years in a row now, 6, 12 and 12 eggs, all hatched, most fed without much effort on my part with a few stragglers that eventually fed by themselves.
I’ve had good success with het to het also, having higher percentages of albino’s than you would expect, same with albino to het.
Interestingly the hatchies from the albino to albino pairing have been the strongest to date.
I have had weak animals hatch out and have had some deaths but no more than I’ve had from other breedings.
I’ve had plenty of dud clutches too though that have either just been crap from the start with infertiles or slugs, or go full term to near full term and die. Have had whole clutches hatch seemingly healthy and then lost nearly all of them within 7 day’s for no apparent reason, hets and albs.
I always get one or two animals with enlarged heart/lungs, I’ve had both hets and albs displaying this condition, they don’t end up in the breeding group, I’ve given a few of these away to my kids friends and they have grown up and seem perfectly fine now, no noticeable enlargement, don’t know if this means they are healthy, they could drop dead tomorrow for all I know but to look at them you wouldn’t know.
I get at least one animal each year with kinks, some have been bad others very minor, again they don’t get kept for breeding or on selling.
These defects haven’t been in every clutch but they have occurred in clutches from the same females each year.
[doublepost=1532307992,1532307233][/doublepost]On another note, I’d love me some of those Albino BHP’s, I think they are stunning.

 

[Sdaji]

Sorry for the late reply, I've been on holiday for the last 9 days, just flew into Bangkok where I am a little more settled than on island beaches and moving to a new island/beach each day.

The Olives haven't changed, there have been many lies. If you stop and think about it for a while, you should be able to see that the story makes absolutely no sense. Or maybe you can't. I'm not sure, but believe me, it doesn't make sense. Or don't believe me, I don't really care.

Plenty of lies get told in the herp world, and the situation really hasn't changed. In the case of the Olives, people seem to imagine the problems were worse than they were and are now gone. The reality is that they were never all that bad and haven't changed.

In the case of the so-called macs, they will always be as bad. I've seen several breeders making ridiculous lies, often completely blatantly, with stories which make no sense. I found one ad particularly amusing, with a female sitting on her '100% fertile perfect clutch' with several obvious slugs! It was pretty funny, but I suppose he only expected to sell to the stupid, and those people wouldn't pick it, so it wouldn't hurt his target market.

Speaking of blatant lies which make no sense to anyone who actually understands genetics, someone posted a video. I won't comment for obvious reasons.

Someone said you can introduce other traits like good feeders, stripes, etc. Yes, absolutely, you can. But some traits can not be separated. Examples are jags/neuro, albino black-headeds/death(or occassional live non viable individuals), amelanistic skin/red eyes. Trying to separate these traits is like trying to breed an eyeless animal with good vision. Those traits are linked in a way which can not be broken. In the case of mutations which are single mutations, as all these examples are, the single mutation is what causes the trait or traits, and if one mutation causes two traits, the only way to get rid of either trait is to get rid of the mutation, which gets rid of both traits.

Adding two traits together like stripes and albinism is easy enough. Separating pleiotropic traits is impossible in these cases. Separating unrelated traits is easy.

Paul: No, there is no easy way to fix these problems. Or any way at all. No, I can't explain it to most laymen without spending a long time (at least a few hours with most people, and some will never get it, even if they spend years getting a genetics major).

It is, however, really, really easy to make up lies which simple-minded people will believe if it is the type of stuff those people *want* to be true. If it is the type of stuff people don't want to be true, it is often the case that no amount of any type of evidence will ever be convincing, and I've stopped caring about trying to convince people if they are closed-minded.

In the future we will have healthy albino black-headeds and Antaresia. It will be when we find entirely new mutations, not by somehow 'fixing' the existing mutations.

One thing which may explain the concept to some people, is that we don't typically just have random lines of snakes with masses of nasty problems, yet we do have some mutations which have nasty problems. This shows that the problems are caused by the mutation. These mutations are not big things which are spread all through the genetics. They are one, single, indivisible gene (sic). The only way to get rid of the problem is to get rid of that gene (sic).

Also consider that all of the Olives everywhere seem to magically have had the problem fixed! If the problem actually had been solved, it would only have been solved in isolated lines/individuals, and the majority would still have the problem. The only explanation which makes any sense is the obvious one; the story is false, and nothing has actually changed.

Oh, and by the way, the 'albinos produced from hets or albino x het are better than albinoes produced from albino x albino' is absolute nonsense. Anyone telling it is either mistaken or deliberately lying.