Young carpet python not feeding - getting stressed!

[Snorl3y]

Hi guys - proud parent of a Murray Darling carpet python (hatched in early Feb - bought off breeder in mid March). This is my first carpet python, so I've spend a huge amount of time reading books and learning as much as possible about captivity.

Unfortunately the little fella hasn't eaten since 29 Apr, and it's giving me a bit of stress. Prior to this, he was eating 1 frozen thawed fuzzie mouse weekly with no issues. He's always been a shy eater, and has never struck at his food when I give it to him with tongs - he would always just eat in his own time. I'm still trying to feed him fuzzies weekly and leaving in his enclosure overnight, but with no success. I've also tried upping the size a couple of times to hoppers but had no success. I generally put a tea towel over the top to give him more privacy when feeding.

I've got him in a 7L Sistema container with a hide log at his warm end, and toilet roll hide and water at the cool end with a branch too, which he seems to love (he sleeps on it most nights). I have an 8W heatmat covering just over 1/3 underneath. I've covered the sides of the enclosure to give him some extra privacy as well. Day temps hover between 31-32, and overnight, particularly on colder nights it can get down to around 28. I'm in Ballarat Victoria where it is freezing cold in winter, and some nights can drop down to 0 overnight outside..
The heatmat stays on 24/7 and it's hooked up to a pulse proportional thermostat with the probe (and separate thermometer probe) sitting together in there.

When I weighed him last night he was 39g. At times he can look a bit skinner than he normally does, but certainly nothing that would suggest he's at risk of anorexia or anything serious. He's still just as active at night in his enclosure, is wonderful to handle and still loves to explore.

Looking at the photos, are there any obvious issues that would suggest I'm doing something wrong here? Or is it just him going on a hunger strike because of the shorter/darker/colder days? And is it safe for such a young python to be on a hunger strike for this long? It seems to be more adults that do this..

I absolutely love Mr Slithers, and want to make sure he's absolutely comfortable in his enclosure

Thanks all!

 

[Ryan-James]

I can't see anything amiss, except for a temperature gradient, it looks like that heat mat covers the entire floor area?
I would be more inclined to have a hot spot or only have the mat on half (the end that has the hides etc).
Thermo regulation is important and the need to cool down is as crucial as the need to warm up.

 

[adderboy]

I agree with what Ryan-James says above about temp and gradient, but while I can't swear that it will immediately address the non-feeding issue, I think the enclosure configuration is wrong. A 7L tub where the height is the smallest dimension doesn't suit a carpet, and it's too small. I would suggest a larger tub (mine are 18L for hatchie/young carpet pythons) with the height being at least 20 cm to allow for a decent climbing/perching branch. Young carpets will often feed from this position - you'll often see them with head down waiting for a prey item to pass beneath. Offer food that way too.

 

[Tobe404]

I'd bump the heat up a bit too. Mine have always been at 33-34c for the hot spot.

 

[Snorl3y]

I can't see anything amiss, except for a temperature gradient, it looks like that heat mat covers the entire floor area?
I would be more inclined to have a hot spot or only have the mat on half (the end that has the hides etc).
Thermo regulation is important and the need to cool down is as crucial as the need to warm up.

Thanks for the reply - sorry, I should have clarified that black mat you see in the photo is just a rubber/insulation mat I have sitting under everything to help push the heat upwards. The heatmat itself is only covering 1/3 of the surface area

The cool end sits at around low 20's and the ambient seems to hover around 26ish during the day
[doublepost=1593846484,1593846372][/doublepost]

I agree with what Ryan-James says above about temp and gradient, but while I can't swear that it will immediately address the non-feeding issue, I think the enclosure configuration is wrong. A 7L tub where the height is the smallest dimension doesn't suit a carpet, and it's too small. I would suggest a larger tub (mine are 18L for hatchie/young carpet pythons) with the height being at least 20 cm to allow for a decent climbing/perching branch. Young carpets will often feed from this position - you'll often see them with head down waiting for a prey item to pass beneath. Offer food that way too.

Thanks for the advice mate. Do you think a heatmat would still be a sufficient heating source if the enclosure was larger/taller? Or should I need to look at a heat lamp to sit above as well?

 

[adderboy]

You'd need to monitor the ambient temp in the larger tub before making that decision. The heat mat might still be enough given we're not talking about a very large tub. But as suggested, try to offer your snake a max basking spot (underfloor is fine) of around 34C.

 

[Sdaji]

The tub looks okay, assuming the heat is under the far end (the wall end, away from the water bowl). I'd want more ventilation, but it's probably not too important. I agree with the others about bumping up the temperature at the warm end a little. I wouldn't be using a larger tub, if anything I'd use something a little smaller. If I was using floor heat (which I would, and you are) I wouldn't use perches unless I was keeping many of them in a densely-packed rack. A single snake in a cold room sitting on a perch with floor heat only is going to get cold. They'll instinctively climb, they naturally often spend winter up in trees. That's fine if you want them to have a natural period of being cold and fasting, but it's not the best way to encourage them to eat right through the dead of winter. If you want to do that you need to simulate year of summer.

Exactly where are the thermostat probe and thermometer probe? How much activity, noise and light disturbance is in the room?

Assuming the temperatures are about the same and nothing has changed other than the season, I'd say most likely he's just fasting for winter. He can't dislike the setup too much if he was happily eating for a month and a half. I wouldn't bother trying every week unless you have something to feed the refused mouse to. It is a little tricky to get a stable temperature in a small, single tub in a cold room. If I was doing something like this I'd probably put a polystyrene box over the whole tub, or use an alternative way to insulate it, and I wouldn't offer the perch. Alternatively I'd just allow it to naturally fast for the winter.

 

[Snorl3y]

The tub looks okay, assuming the heat is under the far end (the wall end, away from the water bowl). I'd want more ventilation, but it's probably not too important. I agree with the others about bumping up the temperature at the warm end a little. I wouldn't be using a larger tub, if anything I'd use something a little smaller. If I was using floor heat (which I would, and you are) I wouldn't use perches unless I was keeping many of them in a densely-packed rack. A single snake in a cold room sitting on a perch with floor heat only is going to get cold. They'll instinctively climb, they naturally often spend winter up in trees. That's fine if you want them to have a natural period of being cold and fasting, but it's not the best way to encourage them to eat right through the dead of winter. If you want to do that you need to simulate year of summer.

Exactly where are the thermostat probe and thermometer probe? How much activity, noise and light disturbance is in the room?

Assuming the temperatures are about the same and nothing has changed other than the season, I'd say most likely he's just fasting for winter. He can't dislike the setup too much if he was happily eating for a month and a half. I wouldn't bother trying every week unless you have something to feed the refused mouse to. It is a little tricky to get a stable temperature in a small, single tub in a cold room. If I was doing something like this I'd probably put a polystyrene box over the whole tub, or use an alternative way to insulate it, and I wouldn't offer the perch. Alternatively I'd just allow it to naturally fast for the winter.

Thanks for the reply mate. Yep the heatmat is under the far end near the wall. So do you think maybe remove that perch and put something a bit smaller and closer to the floor that he can still climb on? The highest point of that perch (which he spends most of his time on) is up towards the lid of the tub - so I guess maybe he is getting cold up there?

The tub is sitting in my computer room, which I sit in during the week for work but that's about it. No other disturbances or constant people walking past etc. It's near a window which gets plenty of natural night, but not shining directly on the tub itself. At night the window blinds are closed, lights off and door closed so it's pitch black in there.

The two probes are sitting just outside the hide log I have down the warm end.

I guess I'm just worried because he's so young, and hoping this isn't going to stunt his growth as he gets older or something....

 

[Sdaji]

Thanks for the reply mate. Yep the heatmat is under the far end near the wall. So do you think maybe remove that perch and put something a bit smaller and closer to the floor that he can still climb on? The highest point of that perch (which he spends most of his time on) is up towards the lid of the tub - so I guess maybe he is getting cold up there?

The tub is sitting in my computer room, which I sit in during the week for work but that's about it. No other disturbances or constant people walking past etc. It's near a window which gets plenty of natural night, but not shining directly on the tub itself. At night the window blinds are closed, lights off and door closed so it's pitch black in there.

The two probes are sitting just outside the hide log I have down the warm end.

I guess I'm just worried because he's so young, and hoping this isn't going to stunt his growth as he gets older or something....

I personally wouldn't have given him a perch to begin with if the air temperature was too cold, but taking it away now might not help anyway, since he has already decided it's too cold to feed through winter. Having kept so many snakes for decades I'd be able to quickly see what was going on and recognise the behaviour he displayed so if you gave that snake to me now with the task of getting it to feed and grow as fast as possible I'd be doing something different from what I'd recommend you to do, but it's your snake and you can play around as you see fit. Once they make the decision not to feed it can be difficult to change their mind until winter has run its course. I'd personally put the snake in a completely different setup, which would tell the snake that things have completely changed and he'd reevaluate the situation and possibly feed. For you, honestly, I'm just inclined to suggest you leave it as it is, at most offer feed once per month for the next 2 months (say, at the start of August and then at the start of September, and then maybe a little more if the weather is warming up). Don't stress about the growth being stunted, they don't naturally feed and grow through all of winter, especially in the south of their distribution, and being the natural pattern it obviously doesn't stunt their growth in a harmful way. The largest Carpet Python I ever grew up topped at just over 10', she was one of the largest Carpets I've ever seen, and she barely fed for about 6 months during her first year of life. I've done a lot of experimenting with growing snakes. I've had pythons to adult size in less than a year, but they don't end up as big as the ones I grow more slowly. The largest Water Python I've ever seen is one I grew up at a normal pace, no power feeding. I got one of her daughters and fed her at a ridiculous rate. She hit 6' at about 10 months of age, her mother would have been under 4' at that age. She never got much more than 6' long, but her mother ended up over 9' (she may even have hit 10', I haven't measured her for over 10 years, she's over 18 years old now).

Maybe I should have been more clear about the probe location; are they hanging in the air, stuck to the floor, etc? I more or less attach thermostat probes to the heat mat (I generally use cords, but it's a similar thing). Often I'll use a large blob of Blu Tac to hold the probe down directly over runs of the cord, the Blu Tac holds it in place and using a large blob of it means it holds some thermal inertia. There's a million and one ways to do it well and a million ways to get it wrong. Incidentally, never use Blu Tac, sticky tape or any adhesives in a reptile enclosure.

Your snake looks to be in fine condition and I wouldn't be worrying. Unless you're in a hurry to get him to a large size for some reason, I'd just suggest enjoy seeing him go through a natural winter fast a resume feeding in spring. One of the cool things about snakes is that they go long periods of time without eating. Even when breeding female Carpets each year I only feed them about 8-12 times per year (I've gone as low as 5 times per year when using large feeds). New keepers can feel uncomfortable with it because they're mammals and eat multiple times per day and instinctively feel that they should feed their pet at least daily, so even weekly is pushing the instincts to the limit, but enjoying a radically different type of creature is part of the appeal of keeping snakes Feel free to post pictures once or twice per month and you'll get feedback to make she he's still in good condition. Don't handle too much (preferably at all) during winter, but picking him up for a quick look every couple of weeks won't hurt.

 

[Snorl3y]

I personally wouldn't have given him a perch to begin with if the air temperature was too cold, but taking it away now might not help anyway, since he has already decided it's too cold to feed through winter. Having kept so many snakes for decades I'd be able to quickly see what was going on and recognise the behaviour he displayed so if you gave that snake to me now with the task of getting it to feed and grow as fast as possible I'd be doing something different from what I'd recommend you to do, but it's your snake and you can play around as you see fit. Once they make the decision not to feed it can be difficult to change their mind until winter has run its course. I'd personally put the snake in a completely different setup, which would tell the snake that things have completely changed and he'd reevaluate the situation and possibly feed. For you, honestly, I'm just inclined to suggest you leave it as it is, at most offer feed once per month for the next 2 months (say, at the start of August and then at the start of September, and then maybe a little more if the weather is warming up). Don't stress about the growth being stunted, they don't naturally feed and grow through all of winter, especially in the south of their distribution, and being the natural pattern it obviously doesn't stunt their growth in a harmful way. The largest Carpet Python I ever grew up topped at just over 10', she was one of the largest Carpets I've ever seen, and she barely fed for about 6 months during her first year of life. I've done a lot of experimenting with growing snakes. I've had pythons to adult size in less than a year, but they don't end up as big as the ones I grow more slowly. The largest Water Python I've ever seen is one I grew up at a normal pace, no power feeding. I got one of her daughters and fed her at a ridiculous rate. She hit 6' at about 10 months of age, her mother would have been under 4' at that age. She never got much more than 6' long, but her mother ended up over 9' (she may even have hit 10', I haven't measured her for over 10 years, she's over 18 years old now).

Maybe I should have been more clear about the probe location; are they hanging in the air, stuck to the floor, etc? I more or less attach thermostat probes to the heat mat (I generally use cords, but it's a similar thing). Often I'll use a large blob of Blu Tac to hold the probe down directly over runs of the cord, the Blu Tac holds it in place and using a large blob of it means it holds some thermal inertia. There's a million and one ways to do it well and a million ways to get it wrong. Incidentally, never use Blu Tac, sticky tape or any adhesives in a reptile enclosure.

Your snake looks to be in fine condition and I wouldn't be worrying. Unless you're in a hurry to get him to a large size for some reason, I'd just suggest enjoy seeing him go through a natural winter fast a resume feeding in spring. One of the cool things about snakes is that they go long periods of time without eating. Even when breeding female Carpets each year I only feed them about 8-12 times per year (I've gone as low as 5 times per year when using large feeds). New keepers can feel uncomfortable with it because they're mammals and eat multiple times per day and instinctively feel that they should feed their pet at least daily, so even weekly is pushing the instincts to the limit, but enjoying a radically different type of creature is part of the appeal of keeping snakes Feel free to post pictures once or twice per month and you'll get feedback to make she he's still in good condition. Don't handle too much (preferably at all) during winter, but picking him up for a quick look every couple of weeks won't hurt.

Thanks again mate - this is incredibly helpful and given me a lot of relief! I actually went out and bought a 5L container (slightly smaller) to hopefully help keep the temperatures a bit more consistent and help the snake feel a bit more "snug". Perch has also been removed so I'll see how it goes. I might get a very small garden trellis or something instead and attach to his hide log so he can climb something that's nice and low to the ground still.

I've got my temps sitting at around 33-34 now too, so I'll keep everyone on here posted about progress. Hopefully he'll start feeding normal again in the next couple of months as the weather starts to change
[doublepost=1595811188,1593994428][/doublepost]Hi everyone - proud to say the snake ate on Friday night! I am one relieved parent, haha

I reckon it was just his temps, which I bumped up a bit to 33-34. He ate the hopper only 5 mins after I left it in the enclosure with him.

Thanks again everyone for your help and advice!

Sam