selected from topic about bigguy's death chondro.

[Guest]

I'm sure that if its being conducted appropiatley then she's doing something right to help them be released.

 

[Guest]

Sorry SW, I think I may use the word juvenile incorrectly, or different to you!
The animals are quite young (not 100 percent sure on the age). Ill have to email her and ask her .

Some SA people should know her, she is a member of the herp group there...

Brodie

 

[Sdaji]

I strongly believe that a captive breeding program should be instigated for the Green Tree Pythons here in Australia. David Wilson has over 100 tagged in his limited study area, so to say that if you took a dozen or so pairs from the bush for breeding purposes would jepodise their populations is just plan idiotic.

I couldn't agree more bigguy. I'd also be very suprised if the actual population wasn't well and truly beyond the 100 known and tagged animals. If they're tagging and tracking the animals, it should be easy to find ones which are breeding and take a small percentage of several clutches. As we all know, the majority of hatchlings die anyway and the limiting factor for the population is available habitat and food, so there wouldn't be any negative impact.

As for there only being 4-6 captive Australian green pythons... I'd be suprised. I'm sure someone has gone up and stolen a few, and I also know a couple of people who swear black and blue that theirs are Australian (I've personally seen more than that with owners claiming they are genuine Aussie). Yes, of course someone could be lying, but their stories sounded pretty convincing to me. And yes, I've also seen Chondros which were supposedly Aussie, which even a novice like me could spot as otherwise.... then of course there are the ones with black spots, blue markings etc Icky!

Continually breeding animals for release is a terrible idea in virtually all situations. It sounds good if you don't know too much about population ecology, but is usually damaging or at best, of no benefit. If populations have declined or disappeared it is for a reason. The only appropriate way to rectify the problem is to fix the problem, not stick more animals into the habitat. It is extremely rare for it to be appropriate to release endangered animals into the wild in areas they previously occured, and if this is to happen it should be done as a once off release, not a continued process. Unfortunately, on the surface, releasing animals into the wild seems like a good thing, so most people think it's a good thing, and because of the way politics works, it often happens.

 

[Sdaji]

and at the same time good habitats should be declared national parks to preserve the land against further destruction due to development

Sometimes turning land into a national park causing extinction. There are several reasons for it, often the land management plan changes so that less people come in shooting vermin because of strict anti guns in nat parks laws, so the place gets overrun and problems occur. Other species require certain levels and types of disturbance. Because of this, there are some species which only occur in really small and somewhat bizzare places. For example, there are several species of grasshopper which are each only found in single cemetaries. Some species of butterfly only occur on grazed land and become locally extinct within 12 months if grazing by domestic stock ceases. We've added new species of plants and animals and made other changes, so often it's no longer a case of "keep all the humans out and the natural processes will be able to take place".

 

[BROWNS]

I have aslo been told that gtps can be found not just in Iron Range and i know a few have been seen right on the beach.I highly doubt that their population is at risk.....from what?Herpers?

I agree with Bob that there should be a few specimens collected to get a breeding programme going for Aussie Greens seeing as we have nobody breeding pure Aussie greens.There seems to be plenty of png greens around but if we are going to have them we should stick to pure Aussie Greens.The png lineage in the Chondros that are around now are really exotics imo, and for those who are purists etc and want pure Aussie Greens,the only way this will happen is if a permit is given to an appropriate persons to catch and get a good breeding programme happening.Then maybe everyone who wants an Aussie gtp will eventually have the opportunity to get one,but right now you can't....

Oh and Bob,very sorry to hear about losing your last Aussie Green,commiserations to you.....

 

[obee]

a member of my family was up working at lockhart river and asked the kids in the school about these green tree pythons and how often they are seen.it depends on the time of the year but he had one in front of him in 20 minutes.in 2001 a mate wanted to see a gtp.it had been fairly wet and a perfect time as he saw 9 in 2 nights[none of them up high]6 yellow juvies and 3 adults.adults were all on the ground.for 2 nights he saw nothing until he was told what 2 look for and then there they were.i don't know anywhere i can find in 2 nights 9 scrubby's or brown trees and they are the most plentiful species up here.according to lockhart murries they are plentiful and found in lakefield national park[northern] as well.a mate of mine this year who is a npws ranger found 2 near the the ranger staion[iron range] while he was there.ARE THEY LISTED AS ENDANGERED?.they belong where they are.captive colony when there is a problem ,i agree.but they are still seen all the time by locals.i believe there is no need at present.


obee

 

[Sdaji]

captive colony when there is a problem ,i agree.but they are still seen all the time by locals.i believe there is no need at present.

Why wait until the situation is dire? Sometimes problems jump up really quickly and populations go extinct almost overnight. If something like this happens there may not be time to collect them, let alone sort through all the red tape that would be necessary before they're all gone.

 

[obee]

that could apply to every animal species on the planet sdaji.who said the situation was even close to dire.how do you know there isn't more now than there was 100 years ago.i know murries no longer eat them.thats 1 less pressure.worry about the 110 northern hairy-nosed wombats found left in the world first before we start worrying about the 1000's of gtp's.plenty of other species that resources can be spent on first.


obee

 

[Sdaji]

yes obee, I agree, by all means look after the wombats if you like (which, as I'm sure you know, they are, in fact I spent time today with Dr Paul Sunnucks, one of the guys who has done swags of work with them). Ideally, we'd do it with all species, but this isn't possible. However, there are heaps of people more than willing to work with Chondros, so the cost would be zero. There may well be more now than 100 years ago and I'm not saying they're under any immediate threat, but any species with a limited distribution which can have heaps learned about and an auxilliary population established at no cost should be brought into captivity. Not to mention that fact that it would bring great pleasure to many people, which surely is a good thing. I see no negatives and many positives in this case.

 

[ad]

the establishment of captive aussie gtps? I wonder how much the png lineage would suddenly be worth?

 

[sxereturn]

I wonder how many people with PNG animals would buy Aussie animals and cross them?

 

[obee]

the once thought to be limited distribution is a hell of a lot bigger than originally thought.it isn't as isolated as once thought either.if you know that country you would know there is a lot of inaccessable, no go areas,story places that few murrie people even go to within gtp range.i agree with most of what you are saying mate.but i believe there are 2 real reasons why we should keep an animal in captivity.1 education in a zoo situation.2 endangered status in the wild. gtp's are covered in zoo's as far as education.they aren't endangered.
to keep any wildlife is a privalage and to take from the wild when they appear to be doing fine, because you just want to, isn't right.


obee

 

[obee]

png animals cross aussies has already been done.thats why i was able to get progeny.i for one would never cross.i think you will be waiting for a long time ad.but i'll sell you a genetically tested deemed aussie one for $7500 in a few years.lol


obee

 

[obee]

i thought taking animals from the wild would be for the benefit of knowledge and saving them, so now it's financial ad.you must remember i am making the best of the gtp captive situation at present.i am not the one who created or assisted this situation.i am just lucky enough to be able to legally keep them.


obee

 

[Sdaji]

and to take from the wild when they appear to be doing fine, because you just want to, isn't right.

I thoroughly disagree. Hell, I even take wild animals because I want to eat them. We live on this planet and you can't hide from the fact that that means living off it. By living in a house, breathing air and eating food you use up resources which can't be used by anything else. Dare I ask if you drive a car? The world is there for us to appreciate and use. We should use it as much as we possibly can without hurting it. As far as I'm concerned, I own as much of this planet as anyone else (and so do you and so does everyone else) and if some of us want to take green pythons from a population which won't be harmed by taking them, then so we should.

 

[SnakeWrangler]

I thoroughly disagree. Hell, I even take wild animals because I want to eat them. We live on this planet and you can't hide from the fact that that means living off it. By living in a house, breathing air and eating food you use up resources which can't be used by anything else. Dare I ask if you drive a car? The world is there for us to appreciate and use. We should use it as much as we possibly can without hurting it. As far as I'm concerned, I own as much of this planet as anyone else (and so do you and so does everyone else) and if some of us want to take green pythons from a population which won't be harmed by taking them, then so we should.

I agree, so long as the wild population isn't harmed in anyway.

 

[peterescue]

I went to Fogg Dam with that lady a few weeks ago... Most of her released snakes die

They quite probably do but how does anyone know. Are they fitted with tracking devises? Or do the kookaburras etc keep a tally.

 

[obee]

sdaji i am glad you are a minority with that train of thought.by all means take gtp's from the wild and see where that arguement gets ya in court.lol.i'm not sure from what you said whether you want to keep em or eat em.lol. what animals do you take and eat from the wild out of curiosity?out of the clouds and back to the real world,none of us even truly own the animals we keep.stuff up and they can be taken off you in a heartbeat.a bloke once did what you think is your right and took a gtp from the wild.he made the mistake of letting me and others know and the problem was rectified.that animal is back where it belongs,where it should be and has been long before you deciced you had the right to remove it.i think gtp's will get along just fine where they are sdaji without your help.at this stage they appear to not need anyones help.i thought you wanted to originally help them now your true motives come out you just want em cause you want em.


obee

 

[michaelh]

Sdaji,

I believe it was your line of thinking that led to slavery. I'll bet if they were worth $50 very few people would give them a second thought re their status.

My vet up here(Cairns) did some voluntary work in the tagging process and says there seems to be a healthy population in the natural environment

Bigguy, very sorry to hear of your loss.

Michael

 

[SnakeWrangler]

I think sdaji was making an argument as to why a small number should be taken legally to start a colony for private keepers. With this line of thinking we should all stop breeding any reptiles and only view them in the wild, if that is the case obee then maybe you should condiser giving you GTP's to someone who believes they should have them as you clearly don't think you should? I wonder why you were so keen to purchase them, I guess you are very interested in learning about them, maybe you will give your clutches away considering you are not interested in the money. Or better still maybe should prepare each of them for living in the wild again and release considering that is where they belong. I wonder who would be most affected by the allowance to remove some for private breeding colonies, the GTP's or the person who has some of the only legal ones in Australia?