selected from topic about bigguy's death chondro.

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Obee, in case it wasn't obvious, I wasn't implying that anyone who wanted to get some Chondros should just rock up to Iron Range and take as many as they wanted. It should be done responsibly and legally. I wouldn't dream of taking wild Chondros illegally, it would be an absurd thing to do with the current situation. My wishes for a captive colony to be established have nothing to do with wanting to keep them personally. There are heaps of species I'd never want to keep but want to see established in captivity, including mammals and birds. The reason I think it would be particularly good with Australian Chondros is that there are many people who would willingly take supremely good care of them at their own expense.

What do I take to eat? Many species of fish, rabbits, insects (laugh all you want), the occasional 'roo and many others. I wouldn't take anything illegally or anything that was from a vulnerable population. Eating farmed meat is bad for the environment, it must be farmed on land which would otherwise be habitat for wild animals. Responsibly taking wild animals is good for the environment as it lessens the need for land to be used by agriculture. Incidentally, I also legally eat wild animals from vulnerable populations (as do most people), usually without realising it at the time. Most of the seafood you buy from the local supermarket or fishmonger is wild caught, and often from over exploited populations (there are also other examples). It's often (usually?) impossible to tell the stuff which has been collected responsibly from that which has been collected irresponsibly. You can get all high and mighty saying you respect the world by not taking a tiny number of green pythons or such but you have your head in the clouds. It is absurd to say on one hand that it's fine to eat wild animals (regularly and in high numbers) but on the other hand say that taking a miniscule number of wild animals for the establishment of a captive population which will bring joy and knowledge to people is bad! We must ackowledge that living on this planet means using its resources. We need to learn to use these resources properly, not avoid using them wherever possible. Anyone who drives a car, wears manufactured clothes, uses a computer etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and says we should never make use of wild animals is an absolute hypocrite and has their head way up above the clouds.

Michael, I have never said there wasn't a healthy population in Australia and even in this thread I've already said there are probably more than most people think.
 
I think the GTP's taken from the wild should be given to experienced breeders ie; bigguy (only used your name as an example as you probably have enough on your plate with all your other breedings) ect under the condition that the successful hatchlings be GIVEN away to other EXPERIENCED herpers so the captive population can become larger. That way, in no way, are they benefiting from the ownership of these animals, except for small funding from the government for feeding, accessories ect.

Cheers, Alan.
 
I understood what you said sdaji and i personally agree, thats not to say others dont have valid opinions. Ease up a little bit people, we all want whats left to be here for our kids and theirs, right? :D
 
I agree with Sdaji,

We have to look at the world around us as a resource that should be managed properly/sustainably. A $ value has to be put on it for it to be preserved otherwise it will be destroyed.
 
instar said:
Is there not a viable population in the iron range? No cap breeding prog at zoos?

melb zoo was trying to breed gtp's but last year the keeper came into work and one of the five was dead, which happened to be the female, the other four where male.........so there went their breeding program :(
 
Sdaji,

You have clarified your meaning and I appologise for any offense. Up here there are too many people, fishermen/women are an excellent example, who have no respect for the natural resources we have. The amount of illegal shooting and other destruction of the environment in FNQ is scary. I appologise for assuming you agreed with the who cares crowd.

Secondly my point re current pop was not meant to be directed at you, just for info.

Michael
 
I am amazed that I haven't posted my codences to you bigguy, very remisse of me.

The lady releasing SA MDs down here is doing it with full co operation and knowleadge of the national parks (as part of operation bounceback). To do otherwise would be illeagal. She released 168 this year after first shed. Of course most will die but sheds have been found from last years releases ( MDs are extinct in that area). I don't know where the idea that she is releasing MDs at fogg dam came from.

INHO we should have regulated captive populations of mostl native species with controlled recrutment from the wild if required. Collection when the animal is/was common is prefered. This does three things, it maintains a spare population incase the worst should happen, it means we have a pool of people capable of maintaining the species and lastly, the pets serve as ambassadors between humans and the animal.
 
my gtp's didn't come from the wild snakewrangler and that is the difference.i have them because they aren't from the wild directly.i have great interest in this species,so i aquired them because they are legal and the best available at present,thats the extent of it.if i am lucky enough to breed them,great.if i don't, great.they are the first thing i look at in the morning and the last thing at night.also a real test of skill as a herpetologist.
sdaji,i can understand some of what you are saying,but there is nothing wrong with the population of gtp's,so there is no reason to establish a captive population.maybe we should establish vast captive heards of eastern grey kangaroos incase something happens to the 68 million that are out there in the wild,ridiculas.do they allow you to shoot roo's in the wild where you live sdaji, to eat.as far as i know thats illegal.fuscus i agree with what you are saying but why must collected gtp's go to private keepers as pets,thats why we have zoo's.
i think everyone forgets that the collection of aussie gtp's from the wild was allowed by npws 20+ years ago.WHERE ARE THE RESULTS OF THIS COLLECTION.THERE ARE NONE.ppl can point fingers and blame other ppl for there failings.the first time this was done by private keepers it failed miserably.great track record to work off.the end result is one lonely old animal that died without benefiting his species and other old animals to old to breed.so what, we should let ppl do this again?please tell me where bob's old animal would have contributed best to the future exsistence of his kind,in the wild or in a cage never to reproduce.what a horrible,selfish waste.


obee
 
IMO anyonoe who is keeping and planing to breed gtp's would be totally against a wild collection of them as the investment they made would plumment .
So my question is are they really interested in survival of gtp's or the money that can be made out of them ?
 
Sdaji,

You have clarified your meaning and I appologise for any offense. Up here there are too many people, fishermen/women are an excellent example, who have no respect for the natural resources we have. The amount of illegal shooting and other destruction of the environment in FNQ is scary. I appologise for assuming you agreed with the who cares crowd.

Secondly my point re current pop was not meant to be directed at you, just for info.

Michael

Michael,

no worries mate, it's often difficult to accurately interpret what people are trying to say when you're working with text only. Perhaps the miscomprehension was also largely my fault for not expressing myself more clearly.

Friends? :)

-Sdaji
 
dobermanmick if my gtp's were worth $50 tommorrow.i would still wake up in the morning go straight to them and leave them with the same big grin i do every other day.they are bloody fabulous animals.i wouldn't part with them for anything.the added attraction is they weren't taken from the wild.


obee
 
not having a go at you obee, but i was just wondering if u are against the collection of gtps in private hands are you against the other species in private hands?
 
Damn good point soul...They are now collecting WA bhps,womas,stimsoni etc.They take from the wild in NT and both places have nothing wrong with the decline in populations so what makes a GTP any different...especially as there are no breeding Aussie ones...i'll tell you what the difference is!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
OK guys
I went trough all 7 pages of deleted posts and put back the ones with out bitching and with bit of informative stuff.
Please do not spoil this topic again by fighting.
Topic is about chondros, if they should be taken from wild for breading purposes.
Please do not bring here again personall issues. If you will, we will delete the thread permanently.
 
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