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whytwolf

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Hoxton Park NSW (Sydney area)
So, yesterday I was on my way to work and my mobile rang. It was the NPWS (National Parks and Wildlife Service of NSW). The gentleman started querying me about my recent ads placed on this website and the Petlink website where I had placed our 5 month old beardies up for sale. I said yes I had done that because we were getting in four female beardies and needed to make room for them as we didn't have enough room. Then he started querying me about my license as I only received my license in June of this year, and how i seem to be selling alot of beardies for only having my license since June. and how this should be a hobby not a BUSINESS. I was just about ropable - I then explained to him that my husband and 2 sons also have reptile licenses all at this address and that of the beardies sold three of them belonged to my kids and the other 2 to myself. THEN he informed me (and I should have known) but didn't fully read my license conditions that any reptile purchased (or otherwise lawfully obtained) CANNOT BE DISPENSED OF UNTIL YOU HAVE HAD IT IN YOUR POSSESSION FOR SIX MONTHS.
So I've now had to make photocopies of all of our fauna records, our reptile licenses etc etc and fax them to the NPWS for their inspection and I guess I'll have to see what happens. I guess they can fine me up to $3300 for infraction of the rules. I'm quite upset by this, firstly because they seemed to have found out about the sales by purposefully watching websites (i would assume this one and the Petlink.com.au website) and because I didn't purposely intend to break the law. All we were doing was making room for our new beardies. And i didn't much like the implication that I was trying to run a business selling beardies.

So to everyone in NSW be sure to not place your herps up for sale unless you've owned them for six months or more and be careful placing multiple ads. Because I don't think they read my ads properly and were just adding up numbers. (ie: Placed an ad originally FS 5x beardies and then when one was purchased I changed the add FS ONLY 3x beardies left) and I think they were just adding up the numbers and not actually reading the bloody ad. Just be aware that the NPWS does check websites, I understand that they are doing their job and are trying to keep people from black marketing and bulk selling reptiles - but my mistake was just that - a mistake and one that i won't be soon making again. Guess I will find out today if I get any fines laid against me :(

cheers
 
The thing is with this current licence system (& our governement in general) it is the honest people who make a mistake who get busted/fined for more revenue.$$$$$

Not often the cunning people who do the wrong thing intentionally. JMO

Anyway Im not getting started I will stop there. :roll: 8)
 
Thanks for the support guys.
I had a look at our records, the 4 from the boys records were bought in June, so we've had them almost 4 months. The one which was sold from my license I'd purchased in July. So if they want to be jerks about it they can fine us $3300 on EACH license or for EACH infraction...... YIKES!!!! I hope they cut me some slack, I'm avid paperwork reader and i've really got the ****s with myself for not reading all the teeny tiny print. However, I'll just have to wait for a phone call today and see what happens. I guess what sort of irks me is that they seem to purposely scan the herp websites...feels like "big brother" if you know what I mean. I've got NO IDEA what made them check up on me. Outside of looking at the websites. I haven't moved alot of lizards or anything or even bought alot of lizards for that matter. So it's sort of creepy that they just decided to ring me up without even knowing what we had on our Fauna records. It seems they've just gone off of the ads that i placed on websites ......
 
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Whats this stuff about a buisness,they know very well that there is several in NSW that are actually buisnesses,i dont give a stuff whether they pay tax or GST registered etc etc they are buisnesses.The law effects the little keeper with a few animals,people that have allot of animals like the pros can get away selling in a short period cause they have multiples of species that cover. :roll: I got booked for doing over 15ks on the great western highway by a police car going the opposite way and i was the last car in a line,so he got me when he turned round = 225$ .A couple of weeks ago i was driving along with the family and a bloke from overseas hits me head on driving on the wrong side of the road :shock: he as police inform me got 300$ neglegent driving ticket :shock:.Yep i got no car still cause he is a lying imbicile and i now have to wait for police report,government in australia has lost the plot in my view. :(
 
Umm for starters, dosn't everyone realise that of course parks and wildlife monitor all the reptile sites/forums like this one? I know that they do! And zulu, the ticket you got when you were last in a stream of traffic and got fined can be contested (I think that is the word), as you were 'foloowing the flow of traffic'. Sorry to hear of your run of bad luck zulu!

And Whtwolf I'm sure they'l just give you a warning - I hope so anyway. i don't really understand the 6 month in your possession rule and thought it was something just on us queenslanders licenses but I guess not. good luck with it anyhow.
 
Thanks, Whytwolf, for bringing this issue to the attention of all of this forum's readers.

Yes, how dare NPWS officers read or participate in the forums! I thought the Internet was freely available for anyone to access. Silly me!

Of course we monitor the discussion websites, pet sale/trade sites, trading post etc. etc. We often pick up unintentional anomalies and intentional illegal activities. Not only does the community demand that we licence reptile keepers, but also monitor their activities. So we have obligations to pursue compliance issues and that may include monitoring Internet activity.

We also want to be able to relate to the concerns and wishes expressed by our licensees. It is important for all readers to appreciate that the NSW NPWS and its sister organisations in other states and territories, are regularly contacted by forum readers requesting that we follow up on certain issues and specific people that are apparently bringing the hobby into disrepute by their activities.

Yes, Whytwolf, you and your kids did breach licence conditions with respect to seeking to dispose of reptiles that had been acquired less than six months ago. That condition is in NSW animal keeper licences, and is also a condition in the licences of several other States, to stop hobby keepers from carrying on the business of a licensed dealer/trader. Nevertheless, in extenuating circumstances you can seek written dispensation from this condition for a specific transaction.

Also, breach of a licence condition does not automatically result in a Penalty Infringement Notice (PIN) or prosecution. In your particular case, you received the courtesy of a phone call pointing out that you had apparently breached licence conditions and were running the risk of a PIN or worse. You were up-front and admitted your error in this case, so that is where the matter will rest.

Cheers,

Jeff Hardy
Coordinator Wildlife Licensing
NSW Dept of Environment & Conservation (NPWS)
 
Well thanks for the explanations! i thought there were a few members in this site who were actually working for parks and wildlife.
 
I'm with Jeff on this one...his presence on this forum and others has been a tremendous help to us keepers over the past few years that he's been a member here. Not only with providing us keeper stats each year, advertising NSW reptile ballots so that all people have a fair chance, but also clarifying laws and conditions of our keepers licences.

The six month rule is made clear on the licence itself and I don't see how it's a problem...personally I think getting rid of animals just because you arranged to get more beardies without having room for them is pretty weak.

I have twice applied for early disposition authorities (to move an animal on before 6 months on licence) and both times the DEC/NPWS was totally understanding and allowed me to do so under the circumstances...without any troubles at all.

Simon Archibald
 
I think that generally NPWS in all states do a good job.

I think the presence on the forums is excellent, as it makes it more unlikely that some idiot is going to intentionally do something illegal.

It also would allow parks and wildlife to hear the reptile communities view on certain issues, such as this one.

Id much rather that they seem a bit intrusive to some, than to have them not give a crap!
 
I'm not opposing the NPWS presence on this forum or any other one for that matter. I think it's great that they are keeping an eye on things. I got a very nice phone call from Brendan at the NPWS office this morning and everything is OK. So i'm relieved and I've learned from my mistake and it won't happen again.

Yes Simon the six month rule IS made clear on the license, but for instance, I had a 12 year old boy come around and buy one of my beardies. Do you think he's read the conditions on the license? Probably not, but I DO KNOW that I did point him to this forum when he purchased the beardie from me and offered him help if he needed it as well from myself. So that said, in his travels on this forum he may well come across this thread and the six month rule will be made apparent to him and he hopefully will not make the same mistake I did.

As far as me selling beardies "to make room for new ones" - well, that was not the whole story. What would you have me do - overcrowd them all? No way!!! The beardies we were selling were most likely all males - we have been searching for definite females for over six months. The opportunity presented itself and as you know finding four females of the appropriate age when one is looking for them is difficult at best. We took the opportunity BUT we had to make the concession of selling some of our other beardies in order for their to be enough space for all of them. Since the beardies being sold did belong to my sons they chose which of their bearides would be sold. BTW we have a large bank of 3 enclosures in our dining room as well as 2 other enclosures in one of my sons' bedrooms. And my husband is currently building 2 more banks of three (4x2x2) to accomodate what we have now appropriately so we don't run into this issue again.
So please don't get on your high horse about "weak excuses" for getting more beardies. I did what was best for my beardies under the circumstance and they have all gone to wonderful homes.
 
I'm not even close to my high horse...simply saddling up my moral pony. I couldn't be bothered to type up what I think...who cares anyway.

Simon Archibald
 
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