Hmmmmm...........not RIGHT!
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junglemad
Very Well-Known Member
To the original poster of this thread, you have a right to sell your pythons to whomever you like. If you want to sell them to WA herpers only then so be it.
On the collection of specimens.I see nothing wrong with collection of wild snakes if you are able to collect by law and you don't totally harvest animals from an area and denude it. Are there strict guidelines governing amounts and the areas for collection?
The earlier point about the NT releasing rescued snakes to collectors was a good one too, instead of releasing them to an uncertain future. In other states as well this should happen to create great breeding stock for collectors prepared to take them on and care for them
As Ad said . What figures are we talking here ?
How many WA herpers have permissions to collect and how many are they collecting per year? Are any species threatened by this collection?
ON the point of indigenous occupation of the Pilbara. Over the last 40,000 years many species of reptiles became extinct through Aboriginal intervention either by hunting or fire setting. What may be good for Banksia reproduction is hardly a good thing for pythons.Perhaps Womas and Blackheads don't taste as sweet or are better at fire drill.
I agree that we are lucky in NSW to have access to many fine animals and it seems a shame that you herpers can't import what you like into Western Australia from the Eastern States. Perhaps this will change in the future when the hobby is stronger and the danger of disease is no longer an issue.
cheers
On the collection of specimens.I see nothing wrong with collection of wild snakes if you are able to collect by law and you don't totally harvest animals from an area and denude it. Are there strict guidelines governing amounts and the areas for collection?
The earlier point about the NT releasing rescued snakes to collectors was a good one too, instead of releasing them to an uncertain future. In other states as well this should happen to create great breeding stock for collectors prepared to take them on and care for them
As Ad said . What figures are we talking here ?
How many WA herpers have permissions to collect and how many are they collecting per year? Are any species threatened by this collection?
ON the point of indigenous occupation of the Pilbara. Over the last 40,000 years many species of reptiles became extinct through Aboriginal intervention either by hunting or fire setting. What may be good for Banksia reproduction is hardly a good thing for pythons.Perhaps Womas and Blackheads don't taste as sweet or are better at fire drill.
I agree that we are lucky in NSW to have access to many fine animals and it seems a shame that you herpers can't import what you like into Western Australia from the Eastern States. Perhaps this will change in the future when the hobby is stronger and the danger of disease is no longer an issue.
cheers
foxysnake
Well-Known Member
I don't believe I'm hypocritical, as I see it WA is going through what all the other states went through before it came illegal to obtain wild animals - at least CALM has made it possible by throughly keeping an eye on what numbers are taken from where, and stopping people from taking animals from any areas that they feel have had enough animals removed. At least that can be said, it's common knowledge of certain areas that have been almost completely stripped of certain species of not just snakes but reptiles in general, its good to see that the wild collections in WA are governed. I'm sure there was a link to CALM explaining it all properly, I just can't remember where I saw the link.
By the way JandC_reptiles I prefer beer over bourbon, and a good Smirnoff will take the place of beer for me anyday. Go the XXXX and smrinoff black (drool..
)anyday!
By the way JandC_reptiles I prefer beer over bourbon, and a good Smirnoff will take the place of beer for me anyday. Go the XXXX and smrinoff black (drool..
)anyday!
stencorp69
Well-Known Member
You do from me
moosenoose
Legendary
Teamsherman said:
This is exactly what I was thinking Sherms. So I guess in reality, if I ever find a GTP or RSP in the wild I shouldn't feel one bit of guilt when I stuff it in a sack and take it
:lol: (Right, I'm off to iron ridge hehe)
_popp_
Well-Known Member
I would assume roadkill wouldnt last to long,with the amount of animals around that would love a free feed.Aswell how many roads did you travell off the main drag?
Road killed reptiles would be a fairly substantial figure,i would think it would be alot higher than 10 collectors could d
k they can go rape & pilaging but dont they need something to hold them in?I would think that most collectors are inhibited by space & enclosures available,even in plastic tubs therewould still be a limit dont ya think?I have seen maybe 10-20 ads for animals ffrom WA forsale to eastern states over the time it has been running,all these animals appear to have been in good health & often been in captivity for over 3-6mths.
It would cost a fortune in enclosures & cages to take large numbers of animals & something i beleive alot are over looking.I think it has been in theory setup well & find it amusing to see the amount of grief over legal collecting,as has been said befor NT thrive on it.
Cheers popp.
womas4me
Very Well-Known Member
Teamsherman, you would be right and wrong with your not seeing many roadkills.
All animals are part of a food chain, a dead animal on an open road is extremely easy prey for monitors and raptors. So consequently roadkills in my experience only seem to last a day or two before being consumed, dragged away of picked up and flown away.
Also, herp movements are largley dictated by environmental factors, i could be possible you were going through areas at the wrong time to see evidence of movement ie roadkills.
IF WA could import reptiles the collectors license would probably not have been bought in. I have spoken with numerous parties in the WA herp scene and i would expect to see some species removed from the collectors lists in the future and other species added. It isn't an open ended system where things just continue indefinately, but it still evolving. It hasn't even been going for 3 years yet ( since March 03 ) so to say that enough animals are in captivity to self sustain itself with a ban on imports is jumping the gun..
All animals are part of a food chain, a dead animal on an open road is extremely easy prey for monitors and raptors. So consequently roadkills in my experience only seem to last a day or two before being consumed, dragged away of picked up and flown away.
Also, herp movements are largley dictated by environmental factors, i could be possible you were going through areas at the wrong time to see evidence of movement ie roadkills.
IF WA could import reptiles the collectors license would probably not have been bought in. I have spoken with numerous parties in the WA herp scene and i would expect to see some species removed from the collectors lists in the future and other species added. It isn't an open ended system where things just continue indefinately, but it still evolving. It hasn't even been going for 3 years yet ( since March 03 ) so to say that enough animals are in captivity to self sustain itself with a ban on imports is jumping the gun..
_popp_ said:
Oh please. How much do your enclosures cost? Have you seen their animals' prices? Even the cheap animals they are selling cost more than the enclosures they'd be housed in! I know people who breed womas in plastic tubs, they're not expensive to house. If they sell womas for $3,000 (check their prices!), they aren't going to have to sell too many to buy enough enclosures to house everything. An enclosure only needs to be purchased once, if they're keeping their animals for 1-6 months or so before selling them, a $20 tub would be a pretty negligible expense in comparison to the number of animals that could be captured, housed in it temporarily and then sold. Okay, womas are one of the more expensive species, but they often advertise their "cheap" stuff (stimsoni etc) for $300 or so. The take permits are as good as a license to print money. I'm not saying the people who have them are necessarily evil or deserve scorn; good luck to anyone who can make some money for themself, but I don't think we need to be giving them any sympathy when it comes to their financial situations. Of course, while some are going about things responsibly, and that's great, some genuinely are irresponsible scum who deserve nothing but contempt.
On the overall issue of WA collecting, it is in everyones' best interests (including the reptiles) for legal collecting to occur. I don't like the way it's being done, but it's a lot better than no collecting being done at all. I'm not sure why people get so upset about it. Most of us regularly eat wild caught animals, particularly seafood. Some of us happily eat them every day, some of us frequently go out and catch our own. Each fish, crab, prawn etc etc we eat is taken from the wild and eaten once. Someone like me will eat hundreds of fish, dozens of crabs and countless prawns each year, among other wild caught animals. Put this into the perspective of taking wild reptiles! A very keen (and rich) reptile keeper may aquire a couple of dozen reptiles in a very big year. Few people would buy more than 10-20 reptiles in an average year, most reptile keepers may buy 1-10 per year (often none) and probably none at all would buy as many individual wild caught reptiles as I eat individual wild caught animals. I'm sure reptiles would rather be collected and cared for as cherished pets than be cooked up and eaten like all those yummy squid and kangaroos I eat. If we viewed reptiles as we do fish, we would probably be buying them at the markets at around $20-$30 per kg (a childreni might be worthvery roughly $10-$30 and of course it would already be skinned and gutted) and no one would think there was any problem. Incidentally, there's a local Asian food market at which sells frozen snakes, gutted and skinned. They have them sitting there in plain view in the freezer. I haven't worked out what species they are and have no idea where they're coming from, but considering that a few people have been sliced up in the alley behind the place (a couple have been reported on the news, sometimes the locals know about it but it doesn't get reported, I used to use the alley as a short cut but after seeing bits of a sliced up person which were never reported, I decided to walk the long way from then on!), I haven't been game to poke my nose in too far. If you want to whinge, complaining about WA collecting for the pet trade is probably the wrong place to be doing it.
I certainly don't think that and like the exotics issue when you talk face to face with people their opinions seem to change markedly from the one they show 'in public'.
The number of animals taken by the majority of collectors would have an almost zero impact on the population and the environment as a whole, an average bushfire would be far more destructive.
The number of animals taken by the majority of collectors would have an almost zero impact on the population and the environment as a whole, an average bushfire would be far more destructive.
ad said:
stencorp69
Well-Known Member
Me neither and I just don't get why their is so much hypocracy when all reptiles originated from the wild at sometime.
thats great, what does it get me, a couple b & w bhp's, a couple different pairs of w.a. stimmys,
lol,
how can you say that, enough have been caught, how many c/b w.a. reptiles have you been offered? how many have been offered for sale? come on, the only reason you have said anything is that you want some left for you to catch, lol,
in my opinion almost everybody would if they thought they could get away with it, lol, bit hard hiding a gtp for long, lol,
cheers,
steve........
collection should not be banned completely, as someone else said, you should be only able 2 collect 2 use for breeding not just 2 make a quick buck, i wuld love 2 c all states have some sort of collection permit in place, strictly for breeding purposes, the collected animals should not be sold, only their progeny.
John
John
ihaveherps
Well-Known Member
how come we only seem to see the same species always being sold from WA?
-Womas
-BHP's
-Stimmies
-carpets
Are the collectors taking perthensis and wheeleri, and other herps more rare in private collections?
-Womas
-BHP's
-Stimmies
-carpets
Are the collectors taking perthensis and wheeleri, and other herps more rare in private collections?
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