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Because of this confusion there are probably few 'real' Blonds as they are a mix of many different areas.
You are misinterpreting something here Boa.
Bob's are from cooktown - Tremains are from the tablelands.
 
Heres a pic of what I origionaly named as the Blond Spotted Pythons. You will note the yellow sides and the lack of patterns on the back. This is the standard colouration for this form.
 
Bob, the male I got from you shows no sign of any yellow from what I can tell. I don't want to disturb it as he's mating at the moment :)
As it came from a definite Blond but doesn't exhibit this Blond trait how can it be defined clearly as a Blond ?
 
hi bob,
it doesn't mean anything to me if yours are the real deal or not, but what interests me is your
first post stating that tremains are a intergrade between maccies and stimmys, that means everybody that
has tremains blondes not only own hybrids but are making more hybrids when they are breeding them,
thats a very interesting conversation starter,
i'm not trying to say your wrong bob, just that i've always thought of blondes being a colour phase and not
a location , but i've learnt something new tonight, and i guess those who only want to breed pure locaction
or pure snakes will be having a look at their blondes..............
might be some nice blondes coming onto the market,

cheers,
steve...........
 
steve6610 said:
hi bob,
it doesn't mean anything to me if yours are the real deal or not, but what interests me is your
first post stating that tremains are a intergrade between maccies and stimmys, that means everybody that
has tremains blondes not only own hybrids but are making more hybrids when they are breeding them,
thats a very interesting conversation starter,
i'm not trying to say your wrong bob, just that i've always thought of blondes being a colour phase and not
a location , but i've learnt something new tonight, and i guess those who only want to breed pure locaction
or pure snakes will be having a look at their blondes..............
might be some nice blondes coming onto the market,

cheers,
steve...........

I think he might of been saying that they are (naturally occuring) intergrades
 
Indicus' animals are not hybrids, they are animals from where the ranges of two species overlap and have a 'melting pot' of genetic material, they have the genetics of the subspecies on either side, but are different to both. This isn't a thing that would have happened over a short period of time, it would have beed gradual. Because of this they could be described as 'intergrades' - where two things have gradually come together to form a new thing or where one thing has gradually changed to another to form an intermidiate(the one 'in the middle' - . They are still pure, so if you breed them to animals from the same area you are not creating hybrids :)

If you were to find another Carpet Python from the same area as your Pot Mac Python - or intergrade as many call this form - then it it would be a pure form Carpet Python, Steve.( If yours is a true Port Mac form Carpet, then I encourage you too breed it to another true Port Mac matey! They are hard to find and much of what is out there are simply Diamond/Brisbane crosses.)

I hope Sdaji is preparing the popcorn for this thread :)
 
What i assume Steve is saying though, is that by Pairing a Withey blonde with an Indicus blonde is creating a hybrid.
 
hi dicco,
i totally agree with you, but you also know i got heaps for breeding my intergrade
to my coastal, what i'm saying is that IF bob is right and tremains are a intergrade then anybody
breeding tremains to say one of bobs would be making a hybrid or cross,

and before anybody gets the wrong idea as far as i'm concerned tremains are pure blondes
and having seen the adults are in my opinion the best around, i just find it wrong that anybody
can say that they are intergrades or anything else,

i'm going to be very interested in reading tremains responce to what started out as a thread
about how nice tremains blondes looked, not about who found the first blonde or who had
the real blondes,

cheers,
steve..............
ps. again this is just my own opinion and no way means that anybody elses are wrong.................
 
Dicco said:
Indicus' animals are not hybrids, they are animals from where the ranges of two species overlap and have a 'melting pot' of genetic material, they have the genetics of the subspecies on either side, but are different to both. This isn't a thing that would have happened over a short period of time, it would have beed gradual.

I hope Sdaji is preparing the popcorn for this thread :)

Actually, Dicco, that would make them hybrids. Many species come from hybrids, in some cases there are continued hybrid events over thousands of years, in some cases it is only in one direction, in some cases the hybrids arrise as a once off hybridisation event, but they're still very much hybrids, even hundreds of thousands of years later. What you describe (which may not be what happened in the case of Atherton Antaresia), is most certainly hybridisation, it actually sounds a bit like what some people would say if they were asked to give an example of how a species of hybrid origin came to be.

/me hands you some popcorn.
 
Oh, righto, so they are still classified as hybridsafter all that, would I be correct in assuming due to the nature of their 'creation' that they could be described as intergrades by definition even though they are still technically a race of hybrids?

/me accepts the popcorn and puts his feet up
 
thats what i meant dicco, as you know i've had this thrown at me for ages, and it's just a very interesting subject as bob is very well known in the herping circles and i'm really looking forward to reading his next reply, come on bob i'm waiting, lol,

cheers,
steve.........
 
The term 'intergrade' is really vague. After studying hybrid species in the lab for years and attending seminars on hybrid species, presented by people who are experts in this area, I'm yet to hear a professional biologist use the term 'intergrade'. In the modern biological dictionaries, intergrade isn't even there, although I did find an entry in an old biological dictionary, which for memory said something like "an intermediate population, usually as the result of hybridisation". I never choose to use the term and frankly, find it little more than annoying. What ever the meaning of the term, it is frequently used by reptile people in mutually exclusive ways, so I see no point in discussing it further here.

I'm not familiar with the origins of Atherton Antaresia, but would have guessed they were maculosa. If they are of hybrid origin, they're still locality pure, the population they come from is completely natural and they'd be no less desirable to me.

For the record, of the animals I keep, perhaps the species I'm most fascinated by are my parthenogenetic Bynoe's geckoes, which are hybrids, as the result of one hybridisation event between two species, then a back cross, and then no more hybridisation for over 100,000 years. There is absolutely no way any biologist I know would call them intergrades. The grasshoppers I've been working on for about 18 months are hybrids, from hybridisation which occurred around 100,000 years ago, if I called them intergrades when talking to any biologist I know, the response would be a blank face.
 
All of a sudden this thread got really interesting (for me anyway).

Sdaji said:
...Bynoe's geckoes, which are hybrids, as the result of one hybridisation event between two species, then a back cross, and then no more hybridisation for over 100,000 years...The grasshoppers I've been working on for about 18 months are hybrids, from hybridisation which occurred around 100,000 years ago..

I'm curious how you know it was a hybridisation event that spawned these tow species, and not the usual evolution for selected adaptations. And what do you mean by "back cross" in this context - back cross to what? If they were two dfifferent species spawning a hybrid, how can that be a back cross?

:p

Hix

(Note: Re my first statement - I'm not suggesting the discussion of Maculosa is not interesting, just that Sdaji's statements I found really interesting.)
 
So they are pretty much hybrids?
Im sure most if not all snakes have been crossed somewhere along the line.
I don't get the whole "intergrade" thing it just seems like wild hybrids to me
JMO
 
A nice looking blond there Boa....oh sorry; better call it a Mac....mmmmm, how about pale mac?, light mac? :roll:
Either way, i can assure you the juv's you purchased from me are as mac as can be........not an intergrade as Bob has suggested.
I do however have a line of Mac's that does display odd colour and traits ( platinum blonds) which Bob will be referring to.
It's still to early to tell at this stage whether it is an intergrade line; but going off a few juv's from this years clutch, it's odd to say the least.
Heres two pictures of two juv 'platinum blonds' from the same clutch.....one has a slight saddle appearance to it's pattern.....(stimmi looking?)
The other is just light in colour.......whether this is a intergrade line?; it's still till early to tell; however appears it maybe the case.....
 
So Bob/Bigguy.

You were the one who first described the Blond Mac, do you think that they are a seperate subspecies?

What about the Macs further up CYP? Do they show typical Mac colours or Blond characteristics?

Have you done work on any other species in the area?

Cheers

Dan
 
Here's some more normal looking mac's, from our normal line......
They share the same father; but different mother.....one looks almost like a blond?
I can only hope; wonder what the experts think?..... :shock:
 
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