sale of reptiles in nsw petshops

[kwaka_80]

*walks past like the sound of it and joins in*

The pet stores up around my area in queensland, the only pet stores that sell reptiles have a special reptile person thats there most of the time... The general staff dont sell these animals, it may be a pain in the ass if you want your python/lizzard/tutrle straight away and they arent there you cant get it, BUT atleast i know that it would have been well cared for, they also have a special locked herp room with everything in it, Individals are kept in individual containers (excluding lizzards/turtles) with proper temps maintained... I belive it goes with there price tag I paid 275 for my spotted python from there and I am VERY HAPPY with the snake i bought

 

[Hickson]

There's been some good arguments put forward, both for and against. Personally, I'm deadset against it. If it was legalised I would only want to see the specialist reptile stores selling them, but if you allow them to do it, the Petshop association would push for all petshops to be able to sell herps, and I believe that organisation (I've forgotten their name) has a lot of clout and may get their way.

I'd still always buy from a breeder, because they don't have the overheads a shop would have and are therefore cheaper, and they can give me details like feeding and shedding history, and I can see the parents. The only benefit to me that I can see would be an outlet for me to offload stock I have bred (you know, 20 Breadies when everyone else has beardie hatchlings for sale). And there's no guarantee the shop will even buy them as they may already have enough.



Hix

 

[Nagraj]

My dog doesnt require a speciefic temperature, humidity, light spectrum or live food

Your dog absolutely requires all those things (except live food) and more to be at it's premium. With todays food substitutes there is possibly no longer a need to feed live food to reptiles and I'm sure you're aware that it's illegal and unethical to feed live vertebrates as food.

Im not sure what your stance is.

My stance is that it's hypocritical to prevent pet shops selling reptiles while happily allowing them to sell other animals. Claiming specialist care requirements is no justification.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I think it would be difficult to limit the number shops to, say, 10. If they can demostrate that they have the skills (and that's the easy part), then it would be regarded as a restriction on their right to trade. Maybe someone with a commercial law background could confirm this.

As a former dealer in WA, I'm against it, if you're interested read my post on the other Pet shop thread.

Jamie.

 

[instarnett]

They do? Can you tell me what the the largest cause of death of puppies under one year of age is?

possibley Parvo virus.

Incidently our first puppy was bought in the window of a petshop on impulse, !7 years ago. She died a year ago.
I have to Agree with Stevethepom, No difference as long as animals are Cb.

 

[Mangles]

Kwaka_80,

Unfortunatley not all pet stores in Brisbane that sell reptiles have a specialist person there. Some that I have been into, the people have no idea and give bad information. Some other shops do have a person that is experienced, but if they are not there or somebody else serves you, then who knows what advice you will be given.

My first snake was through a Pet Store that speciliased in reptiles and fish (no dogs, cats, birds) and I dealt with the manager who was very experienced, but the staff he had working for him were hopeless and I refused to deal with them. He has since sold this shop and the new owner is absolutely clueless.

I have since purchased other snakes through private breeders, and another through a large Pet Shop with a specialist reptile area and dealt with a person I know through the QHS. The day after purchasing this snake it showed signs of RI, and it took at least 6 visits to a vet over probably 6 weeks before it was completely over the RI. This shop covered all the vet expenses, so I was not out of pocket. I would not be confident of other pet stores doing this.

I do not think the sale of Herps should be allowed through Pet Stores, but only through specialist Reptile Stores weher all staff must meet certain standards.

 

[pythoness]

i am both for and against if that is possible. i believe that pet stores have the right to sell reptiles, but that right comes with the responsibility of knowing what their doing and how to care for thir animals. i have only ever bought one reptile from a pet shop, and i think of it more along the lines of that i rescued this snake at a great expense to myself. she was underfed, under size and overstressed, so i took her home, fed her up and she has been the best snake in the world. i couldn't imagine being without her, and i would never have bought her had she been properly cared for, isn't that silly, and just FYI the pet shop in question here has since improved it's care of reps, and i don't mind saying i had a hand in this......

you only need to take a trip to your local pound to see what becomes of the hundreds of impulse buy puppies and kittens that are dumped every day, but is that the pet shops fault? no it is the stupid people buying them.... there will always be stupid people around, and they will be into reps as well, i'm sure we all know a stupid rep owner or two, but the problem is with them and not with the seller of the animals.
this is a good debate tho, and i'm interested in all the differing opinions and reasons behind them.

 

[Lurk]

the argument is moot......pet shops sell them, breeders sell them...in my opinion its the same thing......the knowledge required by petshops is also required by private keepers in nsw, do all private keepers aquire this knowledge before they go out and buy a reptile?

I looked into getting my first reptile with passion,I made sure I had the right set up and The right dietry needs.My first was a Blue tongue when I was able to get my license to get a Diamond I looked into that very carefully.Unfortunately impulse buyers do not do that.To say that a pet shop and a breeder are of the same is incorect.A breeder of reptiles knows his reptiles and most of the time knows what a problem is when it comes up with a individual reptile.Can a pet shop do that? Yes a breeder will make money from the sale of a reptile but a breeder will not sell a reptile if it has not eaten or had at least his first shed.
A pet shop is out to make a quick sale then get in the next lot of stock .

 

[Lurk]

This is a very strong subject and people have allot of veiws those that opose,are for it and those that are in the middle.
So I decided to have a look at the positive veiw on the sale of reptiles in pet stores first
-One argument was what is the difference between a domestic animal and a native reptile? They all need a great deal of care even the rodents we breed for feeding need that.Unfortunatlly I do not feel it is a strong argument.As someone has stated,allot of dogs and cats end up in pound or even dumped and are neglected.There is something else to look at and that is roaming dogs and cats killing native wild life due to irasponsible owners.
-Make sure there are laws for the pet shops and guide lines they have to follow to sell reptiles.Sounds great in a perfect world.So who will police these laws? The same ppl who inforse the laws that are there already? Someone has all ready stateted ,that some pet stores sell under the counter already.So it seems as though if we give them an inch they will take a mile.
-What is the difference between a pet shop selling and a breeder? Most breeders do not sell a reptile untill it has eaten and shed.You will get a feeding scedual with dates and when they have shed.If your reptile seems unwell you can go back to the breeder and the breeder will either know what the prob is and assist and if the breeder is unsure he will still assist.
In the time I have been involved with reptiles I have come across one breeder I was apposed to.I am opposed to 4 pet shops I have come across.In my experience the pet stores do not know enough when it comes to reptiles,They cannot show parentage,they do not have the sceduial for each individual,if there is a herp that is unwell they do not know what to do or how severe the problem can get.A pet shop wants a quick sale.
-Training for staff that work in the pet shops.So assume they would only be trained in basic husbandry,if they leave and someone else gets the job will they be trained too.How soon will this training slack off and there be no real training at all?
I have volenteered in a reptile specialist shop having my own reptiles I started cleaning and feeding rodents and it does not matter how long Iworked there and how much more I did I learnt something new every day.So there for I do not think basic husbandry is enough.
I think that the local pet shop in the mall should not be permitted to sell reptiles at all mostly because of impulse shopers.

If it will be legall to do this it should only be done by reptile keepers and there for it should not be called a pet store but a "REPTILE SPECIALIST STORE" .
I myself am much happier to purchase from a breeder who has the knowledge and has done all the hard work.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

One of the obvious good things about leaving the selling to private breeders is that potential buyers usually have to do a bit preliminary research even to find their new pet. Even looking at this site allows them to know where to access information and assistance if needed.

Dropping in to a pet store and buying something just because it's there means they may have had no contact with anyone, ever, except the pet shop staff. OK sometimes, hopeless at others. At least buying from a breeder allows the purchaser the opportunity to become part of a (hopefully helpful) network.

Jamie.

 

[AdamR]

RE: Re: RE: sale of reptiles in nsw petshops

Totally agree with Steve6610. The majority of petshops have bad names for any animal knowledge. You may also notice that the majority that have a bad name also sell the easiest to keep of the species. For example with fish, your looking at your super tough tropicals and your gold fish, as opposed to specialty shops who sell the harder to keep fish. There are always going to be people keeping animals including reptiles in inhumane conditions (depends on whos eyes your looking through I guess, many common practices on this forum i disagree with, and Im sure there are people who disagree with my methods).

In all, Im suggesting that its not only pet shops that neglect pets. I expect the only species kept in your average pet shops will be the tough reptiles suitable to the beginners who will most likely be buying them.

Adam

 

[Strange1]

I'm sure you're aware that it's illegal and unethical to feed live vertebrates as food.

Good job my turtles eat worms, grubs and snails! Why is it only illegal to feed them vertebrates? Dont other animals have any worth aswell :roll:

Claiming specialist care requirements is no justification

Why bother with multi leveled license system then? If specialist care is no justification they why cant anyone keep anything they like? Why even bother with licenses?

Anyway in the end there is no way on Earth that they will/can stop petshops selling the species they already do. I just think that another heap of animals shouldnt be introduced to be exploited in the same way.

 

[cris]

I'm sure you're aware that it's illegal and unethical to feed live vertebrates as food.

As far as i know that has no truth to it, if it does were is it written in law? I think its only illegal if its cruel :?

 

[Strange1]

As far as i know that has no truth to it, if it does were is it written in law?

Its not true, how can every pet shop sell feeder fish illegally?

 

[Nagraj]

PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS ACT 1985 - SECT 13
13—Ill treatment of animals



..........


(d) causes the animal to be killed or injured by another animal



http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/poctaa1985360/s13.html

 

[Strange1]

Whats the go with feeder fish, feeder yabbies, feeder shrimp, feeder worms, feeder meal worms and the like then?

 

[Stevethepom]

oh dear, we are scraping the barrel arent we

 

[NativeScales]

My opinion is this...

If I want a new car I go straight to the dealer, they know there product and usually look after you when you return.

I have the same opinion about anything I buy.

Now be it a snake, frog or lizard, I go to a specialist/breeder.

Keep reptiles out of pet shops. Unless they are specialists

 

[congo_python]

RE: Re: RE: sale of reptiles in nsw petshops

This should not happen, if people want reptiles go to private breeders - as they care about their offspring and give sound advise, AND follow up advice where needed. It's as simple as that, we do not need this in NSW !!

Congo

 

[ether]

It seems that the cons far outweigh the prosi n this situation. There are no major benefits that come as a result of allowing reptiles to be sold in pet shops. Yet there are an overwhelming number of reasons why reptiles shouldn't be sold in pet shops. The welafre of the animals will be in question but also the welfare of the animal will be in question afteri t have been sold. The fact that reptiles will be readily available mean that impluse buys will become mroe common, people see a snake, buy it and then a month later get sick of it and as a result the animals suffer.

The fact that reptiles are sold through private methods means that the buyer has to research sellers and the animal. this means they show a true interest as they take time out to research animals, locate a seller and then finalise purchase. The seller may also be able to teach the buyer about the snake as generally they have the welfare of the animal as a high priority and not just money.

Cheers Alex