IBD

[Julie-anne]

A friend of mine has a newly arrived diamond python hatchie with what he describes as some strange behaviour...
When i went over to see for myself the hatchie was curled up sleeping and i didn't want him to be disturbed in his new home. I asked my freind what he meant by "strange behaviour" and he described to me what sounds like IBD, stargazing and twisting upside down etc

Now i have 2 questions...

-How easily can IBD be spread to other pythons? i didn't touch the snake but was looking at it close up through the enclosure. Obviously i washed my hands and made sure not to touch any of the enclosures of my own herps once i was back home but is this enough? The last thing i want to do is harm my own herps.

-Is there anything i or my friend can do for this hatchie (preferably my freind as i don't want to take any chances spreading this to my own babies) Is there any advice i can pass on to him?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Be very careful, and have no contact with the animal or anything it has been in contact with itself.

The disease is incurable and can only be confirmed by post-mortem pathology work on the brain/central nervous system.

Would suggest one of the very experienced herp vets check it out asap, they will give you an educated, subjective diagnosis, which would be subject to post-mortem confirmation.

Highly contagious within collections. Again, be extremely careful about your own contact with this animal.

Jamie.

 

[Mysnakeau]

What's IBD stand for? What causes it? Is it preventable? If yes, how? If they don't catch it from another animal, can they "just get it"?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Inclusion Body Disease, it's viral, and it is transmitted from snake to snake via salive, blood, faeces and maybe droplets from the respiratory tract. It is incurable and highly contagious, and can have a very long incubation period - months in some instances. This is why quarantine is so important for reptiles, especially snakes. Be very careful when bringing any new snake into an established collection that you maintain STRICT quarantine of the new animal for 12 months at least, own water bowl, feeding tongs, don't offer food rejected by one animal to another. All breeding loans should be treated with absolute caution, and any prospective pairings should be organised at least 12 months in advance to allow for each animal to be quarantined. IBD and OPMV (Ophidian Paramyxovirus) which has similar symptoms and the same outcome are becoming very common indeed in collections now. We all need to take very great care.

Jamie.

 

[peterescue]

it breaks down the tissue in the cerebal cortex and causes the snake to exhibit signs of motor nuerone disfunction. The star gazing is an example of that but the term is misleading a lot of snakes will look upwards for a time. It is generally quite noticeable as the snakes head will not be held in a normal position at all.
Baby pythons often look upward and move slowly with a slight wobbly anyway.
Apart from that the proverbial has hit the fan as far as these diseases are concerened and would be using the strictest hygiene and quarentine protocols as is possible.

 

[indicus]

It's very scary times for the Australian herp industry......This is fast becoming a major epidemic that is and will spread through Australian collections; as a mate put it the other day; like wild fire.......
I have been very wary about buying any new herps....I just carnt bare the thought of having the heart ache i've seen some poor buggers go through....As has already been expressed; practice strict quarentine procedures with all incoming additions to your collection...

 

[krusty]

it does not sound good so tell your freind to get it to a vet ASAP.
and where did your freind get it from and has he/she told the person they bought the python from as they need to know whats going on so hopefully they dont sell any more of there stuff to other herpers.....untill they know its safe.

 

[Julie-anne]

Yes as soon as he described the "strange behaviour" to me i told him that he needs to get in contact with the breeder and find out whats going on as well as get the hatchie to a herp vet (i gave him some contacts for one near us)

I feel so bad for him and this poor hatchie but i simply don't want to get too involved and risk harming my own (especially now that pythoninfinite has said it can have along incubation period). Thankfully this was the first member of his collection so he has no fear for cotamination himself.
From what i've read, if it is IBD then there is nothing much anyone can do and so i think th best advice i can offer him is for him to get it to a vet with some herp experience.
Thanks for the help guys.

 

[herptrader]

There is an article covering the IBD basics in the current Monitor Magazine (The Journal of the Victorian Herp Society).

One of the difficulties with IBD is that it is very difficult to diagnose for sure while the animal is alive.

 

[RevDaniel]

Sounds like the treatment will be very costly but i hope that all ends well with this hatchling. Please keep us informed as to the progress of the snake.

 

[krusty]

yes treatment is very costly and the out come most of the time is not good
but you have to try as you just never no what can happen.

 

[Kyro]

Not sure where abouts in Sydney you are but Rob Johnson in Emu Plains is a great herp vet & i've also heard David Vella is good but not sure where in Sydney he is. I hope all turns out ok for your mate

 

[Pythoninfinite]

It's been stated very many times when these diseases are discussed, there is NO treatment because there is no cure (it's a virus) and it is invariably fatal - if it has IBD or OPMV. That's why they are so devastating.

Jamie.

 

[JasonL]

There are a few other causes of this sort of behaviour, ei cold strokes, but in the end very few (if any) of snakes behaving like this will get better and the risks of it if it is viral can be huge if you have other snakes (or friends other snakes) so it would be best to get to a vet ASAP and have the animal put down.

 

[Tatelina]

Re: RE: IBD

it breaks down the tissue in the cerebal cortex and causes the snake to exhibit signs of motor nuerone disfunction. The star gazing is an example of that but the term is misleading a lot of snakes will look upwards for a time. It is generally quite noticeable as the snakes head will not be held in a normal position at all.
Baby pythons often look upward and move slowly with a slight wobbly anyway.
Apart from that the proverbial has hit the fan as far as these diseases are concerened and would be using the strictest hygiene and quarentine protocols as is possible.

:O how horrid and unpleasant!
Wow... I wasnt even aware that there were such contagious unpleasant desieases! and what about all the newbie snake lovers that dont go onto this website? how will they ever learn?

 

[Miffy]

How common is it?

 

[Gekkocha]

Has the origin of these viruses been established?
Is it found in wild snake populations?


The description of IBD symptoms reminds me of a disease we have here in the US.
Chronic Wasting Disease is a virus that has been spreading thru wild deer and elk populations in North America in recent years. It is also incurable and causes degenerative neurological damage resulting in weird behavior. It is called wasting disease because animals striken with it eventually lose the ability to feed themselves and stagger about until they die of starvation.

There is concern that hunters may cause the disease to cross over into humans (like mad cow disease) and there have been a few human cases linked to consumption of contaminated meat.

 

[spotlight]

RE: Re: RE: IBD

ive had this from treating for mites try cleaning the animal with some soapy water and put it into a clean cage the problem is that a lot of people treat new snakes for mites and some snakes cant handle the pyrethrins in mite sprays eg diamonds,bredli,and womas the symptoms look just like IBD and also makes the brain tissue swell and if animal cut open lookslike IBD but is not so try cleaning the animal first before going on witch hunt for IBD . (a lump in a breast is not always cancer)

 

[alienpunk]

RE: Re: RE: IBD

David Vella is good but not sure where in Sydney he is.

i think Slatey said he is in Crows Nest, if my baked semi-cponscious short term memory serves me correctly.....he has a website davidvella dot somehting dot something

 

[ThePaintedLady]

RE: Re: RE: IBD

David Vella practices at:
North Shore Veterinary Specialist Centre
64 Atchison Street,
CROWS NEST
Ph: 02 94364884