UVA and UVB for snakes

Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum

Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
pffft listen to that advice at your own risk.
 
I never recommened it and said UV light is desirable all I said is that it can be done without it. I am certainly not the only one doing it without any problems.
 
What a load of rubbish!

Most pythons and monitors don't need UV light to lead a long heathly life, Dragons for example need UV light and it seems diamond pythons do benefit from it.


Your not a real vet are you?

:lol: You beat me to it....LOL
 
The use of calcium on its own wouldn't be enough to prevent problems occuring.As far as I was aware D3 obtained from exposure to UV is necessary to metabolise calcium.
 
I can see the problem with that vitamin supplement advise. You can if its top quality stuff like Herptivite. But most people buy cheap vitamin supplement and I trust very few of the supplements floating around. They have bred generations of chameleons overseas with no uv supplement. I can quote the literature where i read it if you want. I do believe though that UVb is essential in keeping lizards. I have even seen Goannas with MBD if not supplying the right amount of UV. The problem with vitamin supplements is that exactly how much is enough or too much as oversupplementation can also have adverse effects.
 
Junglepython2 have you ever kept dragons?

Somehow i don't think you have and giving advice like that is just wrong, i'm sorry but getting tried of people saying things like this who have no idea what so ever.

Try keeping dragons without UV light mate.....let us know how long they last.

I have kept three sp. of Dragons without UV or supplements and am currently keeping two sp. (vitties and crested's) I have kept vitties with full UV and for the last four years without, and have not seen any difference, last season I bred 170 vitties with no defects. This season some of my females are just starting to lay their second clutches and all is good. I currenty have 14 bearded Dragons and all bar one have been raised from hatchlings without UV, and I have raised six more that I have sold off . All my animals are offered food EVERY day and are closely monitored to how much they are eating.
 
It seems movt of us have heard different things and i think the best choice anyone can can make is to make their own from hearing many different desitions from others (not trying to say anyone is wrong here)
 
Vets seem to differ

All reptiles require UV in the range from 285-315nm. In addition to this, they also require a blue-green light. UV is required to convert Vitamin D to its active form. All Vitamin D supplements are in the INactive form and require UV. Failure to provide UV light can lead to bone disease including fractures and paralysis.

It appears that Vets seem to differ in their opinions. I was recently in a lecture a fews days back and we were told that apart from diamond pythons not python needs UVa +uVB.

Lizards apparently need it in the range of 290-320. I have also spoken to another Vet and he said a similiar thing.

Remember most pythons are nocturnal.;)

Also no supplement is needed in pythins diet as they get their supplements and all required Vitamins from the whole prey that they eat.
 
Vets all read from the same text book. There is certainly a complex balance between heat and amount of food, and the faster the animal wants to grow or the if the animal has a more complex heating requirement (ie diamonds) the more problems you will have with healthy bone growth. Any reptile can suffer from incorrect bone growth if these balances arn't right it is just some leave little room for error. I have seen many cases of met. bone desease in dragons, frogs, skinks, pythons, geckoes and monitors and each of these could be put down to incorrect husbandry. I recently had a problem with some female Oedura geckoes, I lost three females all gravid, I had had these geckoes for ten months and all were doing fine untill they were showing sign's of calcium deficiency (twitching of the toes) all three soon died (they were of two different sp.) then when I noticed another two females doing the same thing I started to panic, so I raised the enclos. temp from 22 to 30 deg and within two days they where back to normal and have since layed their eggs. I put this down to lack of calcium in the blood due to the production of eggs caused by lack of appropriate heating. My theory is that a growing reptile that is supplied the correct amount of heating but lacking in correct food (may be not eating due to bullying or simply not fed correctly) will suffer from bone deformities as the body uses bone mass to increase calcium in the blood and a growing or gravid animal suppied with a lack of correct heat with die in a fit due to lack of calcium in the blood (this could also happen to adult males but quicker in gravid females and growing young). The fact is we are all still leaning and there are may facts still to be unearthed and if it works well for you stick to it!
 
Have done a bit of research in some of the veterinary literature after reading some of the replies to this topic and successful keeping without UV. I have found that metabolic bone disease is rare in snakes, and most can cope quite fine without UV light. This is different for most other reptiles which require the Vitamin D from UV light in addition to Calcium from the diet.
 
Please do not take the word of people whose only real expertise lies in posting opinions.
Please do not take my opinion.
Read the hundreds of web sites available to you through a simple internet search.

I think:

Vitamin D, located in certain blood cells in the skin is converted by part of the UVB light band to the hormone known as Vitamin D3. This is converted in the liver and transported to the kidneys which excrete the active form used in the cells of the intestine to metabolise calcium.
Without this process ingested calcium is not metabolised properly and the animal suffers from Metabolic Bone Disease.
Feeding extra calcium alone will not help, because the calcium can not be used without the Vitamin D3 hormone. In fact, an Old Wives Tale suggests that a way to kill mice and rats is to get them to walk through calcium powder so that when they lick it from their paws it settles in the gut and ultimately kills them. (I'm not saying I believe Old Wives Tales, just that feeding a lot of indigestible calcium may not be such a great idea.).

In reptiles, hatchlings and juveniles are particularly susceptible to MBD because of their rapid growth. Conversely in humans, the problem becomes evident with age because the skin cells cease to function properly. Hence older humans are encouraged to take Vitamin D3 supplements.
However, an overdose of Vitamin D3 is highly toxic and there is no real agreement among doctors on safe dosages for humans, let alone reptiles. Feeding "Vitamin D3" to reptiles would be a waste of money if it were the inactive cheap form, and it would be dabbling in a dangerous poison if it were the actual steroid needed.

Dragons, because of their habitat, are forced to spend long periods exposed to deadly UV rays. They have developed skin capable of protecting them. Presumeably, very little of the UV light striking them gets through to the cells that use it and so they not only can stay out in the sun for hours, but it may be that they actually have to.
Geckos on the other hand seem capable of collecting enough UV light in the cells of their thin skin in a very short time at dusk or dawn.
Vitamin D3 is stored in body fat and present in the blood, skin and major organs where carnivores like dogs and cats, and presumeably snakes, can access it. So it may be true that snakes do not need UVB light. Alternatively, in snakes, the skin cells that use UV light may be located so that they need very little exposure, like a gecko?

Vitamin D3 remains stored in the body for a very long time and exposure to UV light may not be needed very frequently.

To say a snake does not need UVB light is making a dangerous assumption. In the wild, pythons emerge at dusk and like geckos, they absorb UVB rays. They come out in the day time, in shade, but UVB light is known to penetrate dense forest.

It may well be that a short time in the shade allows a snake to use UVB to activate enough Vitamin D3 to last it for months. Who knows? Please make up your own mind by reading the research available on the internet - it's not all scientific gobbledegook or disguised advertising.
 
By the way Vets do not know everything and by that I mean if the Vet does not specialize in any herp realted animal then I would personally question the advice they give. That is why it pays to find a good herp vet who either works in the field (i.e. a vet who has worked at a Zoo or a vet who holds herps or has held herps in his own private collection.

JMHO

I would be extremely wary about keeping Dragons etc without some form of UVB lighting. JMHO
 
If there are any vets / science type herpers that want to do any studies on the subject in the Sydney area I will be happy to supply them with as many bearded dragon hatchlings as they need, free! I have been experimenting over the last few years with very successfully raising hatchlings to full size within a year in full glass tanks (with lids) and ceramic heat bulbs. I have a keen interest in this subject as my successes seem to go against what is common fact.
 
Do you give your hatchling beardies UV light?

Whats so uncommon with growing beardies to full size in a year? Mine hit full size in 8 months and then start dropping eggs.

No one here can deny the fact that UV light on dragons is benefial, bearded dragons kept under constant daytime UV feed better have brighter color and are more active.
Adult bearded dragons can go for long periods without UV but it is a very important part of their growth.
 
Junglepython2 have you ever kept dragons?

Somehow i don't think you have and giving advice like that is just wrong, i'm sorry but getting tried of people saying things like this who have no idea what so ever.

Try keeping dragons without UV light mate.....let us know how long they last.

I was reading a post from someone the other day who said they are on here because they dont want to get info out of books, they want to hear what has worked for people from experiance.

If junglepython2 hasnt had a problem in 10 years why cant you except that without sayin he has no idea??, it has worked for him so far hasnt it.
 
Because he must be the only person in the world who can do this.

If he has worked out a way to do this then he why let everyone know how he's doing it, telling newbies that it's ok not to give dragons UV is asking for trouble.
 
Because he must be the only person in the world who can do this.

If he has worked out a way to do this then he why let everyone know how he's doing it, telling newbies that it's ok not to give dragons UV is asking for trouble.


I never recommended it, I only said that it can be done and know of several people who do it without problems. As you can see from this thread Jason has done it on a large scale with no problems. I do agree that UV is desirable however, just not essential in all circumstances.
 
Would the life expectancy of beardies without UV of any kind be different to ones that have been broguht up with Uv? UV has been proven as a requirement for strong bones. If it has worked for JasonL great but I don't think it's wise to tell a newbie. JMHO.

If something was to happen to it and the animal had to to a good reptile vet I'm sure the Vet would (and should) ask basic husbandry questions of the owner. You might get quizzed a bit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top