alumba
Well-Known Member
still there is no need to ridicule people for making 1 mistake sparticus i agree wid u 100%
Help Chicken Beak Went Through My Snakes Neck
- Thread starter ashman07
- Start date
-
- Tags
- antaresia childreni
Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:
- Status
Nome
Very Well-Known Member
Do all the people posting here (most seem new to snakes) realize that you should NEVER FORCE FEED A SNAKE ANYTHING?
Not just a sharp chicken head, not anything dangerous, but ANYTHING AT ALL unless you are experienced or have been shown.
Force feeding is unecessary, dangerous and stressful and you should only attempt this if you have a few years under your belt and have been shown how to.
Do people realize this? Do you ashman know not to try force feeding any kind of food again?
All people need to do is use common sense, post a question somewhere or call a breeder if your snake isn't eating, never ever attempt force feeding.
In the last couple of months, seeing the influx of people into the hobby and on this site, I have felt our hobby is doomed. Many snakes are sick or dying due to the owner's mistakes and new people are often doing things that are just plain out common sense. A usual mistake is having a snake that has a million problems with feeding, yet they handle it everyday. Why the hell do people do this? Is a snake worth that little to people now...that you would rather risk your pet's health than restrain yourselves.
Rockman is right, the reason things are going to ***** is because so many of the experienced people have left due to frustration and insane advice is being given out by people that have hardly had any keeping experience.
Not just a sharp chicken head, not anything dangerous, but ANYTHING AT ALL unless you are experienced or have been shown.
Force feeding is unecessary, dangerous and stressful and you should only attempt this if you have a few years under your belt and have been shown how to.
Do people realize this? Do you ashman know not to try force feeding any kind of food again?
All people need to do is use common sense, post a question somewhere or call a breeder if your snake isn't eating, never ever attempt force feeding.
In the last couple of months, seeing the influx of people into the hobby and on this site, I have felt our hobby is doomed. Many snakes are sick or dying due to the owner's mistakes and new people are often doing things that are just plain out common sense. A usual mistake is having a snake that has a million problems with feeding, yet they handle it everyday. Why the hell do people do this? Is a snake worth that little to people now...that you would rather risk your pet's health than restrain yourselves.
Rockman is right, the reason things are going to ***** is because so many of the experienced people have left due to frustration and insane advice is being given out by people that have hardly had any keeping experience.
zard
Well-Known Member
agreed
agreed
i also agree that what was done was pretty stupid but hindsight is a wonderful thing and regret a powerful emotion.
Lets just hope that in future people take their animals to the VET or at least someone qualified instead of trying to save a buck and do things like this themselves.
shamous1
Very Well-Known Member
Remember
Just remember one thing here!!!!!!
Ashman did not have to post this thread at all. I believe he made the post in the attempt to help someone in a similiar position. He has learnt by his mistake and hoped to help someone else by sharing his experience.
Don't give him grief about it. All you are doing is putting people off by posting future posts.
Everyone has made mistakes in their life and you are full of crap if you believe that you have not.
Sorry for my rant but I have had a few red wines.......................but come tomorrow I would say exactly the same thing.
Ashman I hope to ctahc up one day and share herp stories. Give the guy a break guys.:|
Just remember one thing here!!!!!!
Ashman did not have to post this thread at all. I believe he made the post in the attempt to help someone in a similiar position. He has learnt by his mistake and hoped to help someone else by sharing his experience.
Don't give him grief about it. All you are doing is putting people off by posting future posts.
Everyone has made mistakes in their life and you are full of crap if you believe that you have not.
Sorry for my rant but I have had a few red wines.......................but come tomorrow I would say exactly the same thing.
Ashman I hope to ctahc up one day and share herp stories. Give the guy a break guys.:|
whiteyluvsrum
Very Well-Known Member
its not hard to keep reptiles, its easier to keep em than dogs.
just got to use connon sense.
just got to use connon sense.
zard
Well-Known Member
Its been mentioned about the lack of experience in the members now on this site and that its not being used for what it was intended.Well isn't It good to see the site is being used exactly what it was intended for Questions and responses being posted about a reptile.
And one more thing,how do we ever expect the inexperienced to learn if the experienced ridicule them.If you do not want the trade to be doomed then be pro-active and help out the less experience and we can all enjoy a healthy hobby.
Nome
Very Well-Known Member
If you are referring to me Sparticus, where have I ridiculed anyone?
I just see people saying to ashman ' you should have used this or that instead', my point is that force feeding anything at all is dangerous in inexperienced hands. You will find that most very experienced keepers and breeders will NEVER resort to force feeding anything, there are much better ways for the snake. I was concerned that newbies think that force feeding any kind of food is acceptable, when in reality it's a very dangerous practise with negative outcome regardless if something goes wrong when it's done or not.
And to your other comment sparticus, the experienced people used to bother here because this was a site that used to be about reptiles. The reason 95% of them left was because of the new culture of newbies handing out terrible advise and then the experience people getting slammed when correcting them (calling them the 'elite' and the like) and also because decent herp threads were lost in the chit chat. You will find those people on other sites now, but these are sites that discourage chit chat, so the newbies just aren't bothering there because keeping reptiles seems to be to newbies these days about a social status rather than caring for and loving reptiles.
My partner has kept and bred snakes alone for 13 years, he was a member of this site since it was yahoo groups, years ago now. He recently left and asked for his account to be removed, most of the breeders tried here and did persist, but it was pointless.
It is very clear to me reading threads over the last year here that some review needs badly to be done for licensing or animals are going to continue to be neglected, get sick and dying, and little 'mistakes' are going to be making reptiles very sick and stressed. Steve Irwin hated that reptiles were allowed to be kept as pets, he was totally against the reptile keeping hobby for that reason, that he believed the animals would suffer. I used to disagree with that, but in the last year I strongly believe he was right.
I just see people saying to ashman ' you should have used this or that instead', my point is that force feeding anything at all is dangerous in inexperienced hands. You will find that most very experienced keepers and breeders will NEVER resort to force feeding anything, there are much better ways for the snake. I was concerned that newbies think that force feeding any kind of food is acceptable, when in reality it's a very dangerous practise with negative outcome regardless if something goes wrong when it's done or not.
And to your other comment sparticus, the experienced people used to bother here because this was a site that used to be about reptiles. The reason 95% of them left was because of the new culture of newbies handing out terrible advise and then the experience people getting slammed when correcting them (calling them the 'elite' and the like) and also because decent herp threads were lost in the chit chat. You will find those people on other sites now, but these are sites that discourage chit chat, so the newbies just aren't bothering there because keeping reptiles seems to be to newbies these days about a social status rather than caring for and loving reptiles.
My partner has kept and bred snakes alone for 13 years, he was a member of this site since it was yahoo groups, years ago now. He recently left and asked for his account to be removed, most of the breeders tried here and did persist, but it was pointless.
It is very clear to me reading threads over the last year here that some review needs badly to be done for licensing or animals are going to continue to be neglected, get sick and dying, and little 'mistakes' are going to be making reptiles very sick and stressed. Steve Irwin hated that reptiles were allowed to be kept as pets, he was totally against the reptile keeping hobby for that reason, that he believed the animals would suffer. I used to disagree with that, but in the last year I strongly believe he was right.
alumba
Well-Known Member
force feeding is at times necessary some times it is the last resort but I do agree with you it is dangerous and it should be done by experienced people. having said that you have to start some where I have force fed around 150 snake in my years dedicated to reptiles and i never got shown how to force feed a snake, i had to read it out of a book . i had a hatchling children’s that wouldn’t feed for ages and no rep vet around at all i had no choice but to turned to a book and that book saved that snakes life and out of all the times i force fed i only stuffed up once.
the point is some times you have to do what is necessary for the animal whether taking it to a vet of when non around or most of the time don’t know anything you have to do it all your self books and forum like this one are a sight for sore eyes to new hobbyist alike so in stead of criticizing lets help them.
now im off this topic. cya
The statement was made I context to what is being discussed not at anyone in particular especially you,I have read what you have to say about force feeding and I agree with you to the most,but I have seen even the most experienced resort to force feeding in fear of losing an animal.These people were experienced and still thought this was the apropriate action.The point I'm trying to make is that all of us need to communicate more about the keeping of reptiles.I would never of thought about ever force feeding a chicken head,then on the other hand I would never have thought it would of caused the kind of damage it did.I do not beleive the chicken head was the problem,I beleive it was the force feeding.I think the person is very fortunate not to of taken the snakes life. The person should never have thought of that as an option,it should of been explain when they purchased the animal if you have any problems about anything don't hesitate to ring and we can come up with a solution.As for peoples common sense you can't trust it,everyone has different views on whats sensible and what isn't.That is why industries place policies and work practise codes to take common sense out of the equation.
The statement was made I context to what is being discussed not at anyone in particular,I have read what you have to say about force feeding and I agree with you to the most,but I have seen even the most experienced resort to force feeding in fear of losing an animal.These people were experienced and still thought this was the apropriate action.The point I'm trying to make is that all of us need to communicate more about the keeping of reptiles.I would never of thought about ever force feeding a chicken head,then on the other hand I would never have thought it would of caused the kind of damage it did.I do not beleive the chicken head was the problem,I beleive it was the force feeding.I think the person is very fortunate not to of taken the snakes life. The person should never have thought of that as an option,it should of been explain when they purchased the animal if you have any problems about anything don't hesitate to ring and we can come up with a solution.As for peoples common sense you can't trust it,everyone has different views on whats sensible and what isn't.That is why industries place policies and work practise codes to take common sense out of the equation.
ashman07
Well-Known Member
For everyones infomation I did ask for advice on how to feed this snake. I was told that I may have to force feed it. And I breed bantams so that is why no one else on here would have considered a chicken head, as they don't keep them. Since I have them i thought why not. I havn't just been keeping reptiles for a few months, I have had them years ago.
Nome
Very Well-Known Member
Alumba, this is my last post on the topic as well as I really cannot be bothered with this place most of the time anymore:
Force feeding is unecessary in 99.9% of circumstances. It is not unusual to hear of breeders that pumped out thousands of snakes never force feeding even one. We have bred notoriously hard to get eating hatchlings such as BHPs and Antaresia and have never had to force feed. This is why:
All force feeding does is getting some food into the snakes stomach. It doesn't teach the snake anything except that feeding is stressful, it doesn't teach the snake to swallow, nor to develop any instincts. ASSIST FEEDING on the other hand is a way where the snake is able to take food, whilst putting much less stress on the snake and also inducing the swallowing reflex. If anyone tries force feeding without ruling out all the other possibilities, they should not be keeping snakes.
Another reason why FF is unecessary: there are heaps of reasons why a snake goes off it's food. It's obvious in the original posters case, that force feeding this diamond was completely over the top when it had only gone three months without food. Likewise, the other night, I had heard of a 16 year old that force fed his first snake after only having it for a month. This is where snakes will die much quicker than if they are left refusing food. The Number 1 cause of snakes not eating in my opinion is over handling. People handle their snakes as soon as they get them home, they give them no chance to adjust, they then incredibly CONTINUE to handle the snake even when it has refused food. Handling a snake it putting it through stress, ask any old timer and they will tell you that. Most snakes will tolerate that stress, but the first sign of stress in a snake is it refusing food. I have never ever understood why people continue to handle their snakes at all when they are refusing food. Another reason snakes won't eat is because of the time of year, which is most likely what ashman's snakes problem was, it's normal and especially in carpets still this late. Another reason is unsuitable caging (ie too big) and also cage temperature. Then there is stress factors, illness and hoards of other reasons.
Instead of people now looking for the cause of the non-feeding, they just look for ways to get the snake to eat even after a short period of time. How many inexperienced people on here have told people to try a skink? People dont' realize then that they are setting themselves up for a life long problem of the snake only wanting scented food. Newbies need a book to tell them something about checking all these things first, looking at stress factors and most importantly not touching the snake at all until it is eating again.
We have never had a problem feeder persist for a long period of time, my partner has had 100s of snakes go through his hands through trading and breeding and never had to force feed one. You just rule out the other factors and most of the time that will fix the feeding problem. We have not had one case yet that we were even close to considering force feeding.
There are many other ways and they 99.9% of the time fix the problem. Every time we sell a snake, we say 'leave it alone for two weeks, if after that it stops eating, don't handle it till it is', and there is rarely a problem. I think if newbies just stopped stressing their snakes, most of these feeding problems would be fixed.
Hopefully this thread has been a good learning curb for anyone that was considering FF....it says alot to me that breeders going for a lot of years are more reluctant to FF than newbies these days. It's just not worth it for the snake.
Anyway, I'm out. I hope I explained my reason for why I think it's unecessary enough for you Alumba.
Force feeding is unecessary in 99.9% of circumstances. It is not unusual to hear of breeders that pumped out thousands of snakes never force feeding even one. We have bred notoriously hard to get eating hatchlings such as BHPs and Antaresia and have never had to force feed. This is why:
All force feeding does is getting some food into the snakes stomach. It doesn't teach the snake anything except that feeding is stressful, it doesn't teach the snake to swallow, nor to develop any instincts. ASSIST FEEDING on the other hand is a way where the snake is able to take food, whilst putting much less stress on the snake and also inducing the swallowing reflex. If anyone tries force feeding without ruling out all the other possibilities, they should not be keeping snakes.
Another reason why FF is unecessary: there are heaps of reasons why a snake goes off it's food. It's obvious in the original posters case, that force feeding this diamond was completely over the top when it had only gone three months without food. Likewise, the other night, I had heard of a 16 year old that force fed his first snake after only having it for a month. This is where snakes will die much quicker than if they are left refusing food. The Number 1 cause of snakes not eating in my opinion is over handling. People handle their snakes as soon as they get them home, they give them no chance to adjust, they then incredibly CONTINUE to handle the snake even when it has refused food. Handling a snake it putting it through stress, ask any old timer and they will tell you that. Most snakes will tolerate that stress, but the first sign of stress in a snake is it refusing food. I have never ever understood why people continue to handle their snakes at all when they are refusing food. Another reason snakes won't eat is because of the time of year, which is most likely what ashman's snakes problem was, it's normal and especially in carpets still this late. Another reason is unsuitable caging (ie too big) and also cage temperature. Then there is stress factors, illness and hoards of other reasons.
Instead of people now looking for the cause of the non-feeding, they just look for ways to get the snake to eat even after a short period of time. How many inexperienced people on here have told people to try a skink? People dont' realize then that they are setting themselves up for a life long problem of the snake only wanting scented food. Newbies need a book to tell them something about checking all these things first, looking at stress factors and most importantly not touching the snake at all until it is eating again.
We have never had a problem feeder persist for a long period of time, my partner has had 100s of snakes go through his hands through trading and breeding and never had to force feed one. You just rule out the other factors and most of the time that will fix the feeding problem. We have not had one case yet that we were even close to considering force feeding.
There are many other ways and they 99.9% of the time fix the problem. Every time we sell a snake, we say 'leave it alone for two weeks, if after that it stops eating, don't handle it till it is', and there is rarely a problem. I think if newbies just stopped stressing their snakes, most of these feeding problems would be fixed.
Hopefully this thread has been a good learning curb for anyone that was considering FF....it says alot to me that breeders going for a lot of years are more reluctant to FF than newbies these days. It's just not worth it for the snake.
Anyway, I'm out. I hope I explained my reason for why I think it's unecessary enough for you Alumba.
Peregrinus
Active Member
created yourself quite a thread here ashman 
To Nome,
That is the best thing I have ever read on this site,It was straight to the point and backed up with years of experience and knowledge.You did exactly what I was asking in my continued posts,you provided the imformation from an experienced point view on force feeding so we can all learn and put the animals well being first, much appreciated.Please see this site as a way of teaching people like myself from your experiences.Thanks
That is the best thing I have ever read on this site,It was straight to the point and backed up with years of experience and knowledge.You did exactly what I was asking in my continued posts,you provided the imformation from an experienced point view on force feeding so we can all learn and put the animals well being first, much appreciated.Please see this site as a way of teaching people like myself from your experiences.Thanks
alumba
Well-Known Member
well done Nome
yes i agree with you and yes maybe i should have gone in to more detail on when its time to ff i would like to say for the record that ff is THE LAST RESORT after all avenues have been checked and double checked like Nome was saying eliminate all other possible causes then c about ff but i stand by what i said ff is some times necessary but as the last resort only
now im finished
Nome, a rebuttal?:lol: lol
yes i agree with you and yes maybe i should have gone in to more detail on when its time to ff i would like to say for the record that ff is THE LAST RESORT after all avenues have been checked and double checked like Nome was saying eliminate all other possible causes then c about ff but i stand by what i said ff is some times necessary but as the last resort only
now im finished
Nome, a rebuttal?:lol: lol
whiteyluvsrum
Very Well-Known Member
agree on everything said nome!
- Status
