John Howard new laws

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so what if its racism ?, it needs to happen for the kids sake, even if it means taking the kids away sobe it , if you abuse your kids you lose them that law allready applies to everyone , only this stolen genartion will be there own fault, i hope rudd wins this year but i give two thumbs up to old jonnie for haveing a go ,,,,,,,,,,,the welfare laws will applie to all aussies come middle of next year , so look out if your doing wrong by your kids........
 
It's all too easy to criticisize, but if you disagree with what the Coalition Government is doing on this matter, suggest a a better alternative.

Grog is a major impediment to aboriginal people progressing, but it doesn't stop there, it harms wetu people also. Aboriginal people though are suffering at a lot more serious rate based on their numbers, and this warrants action like this.
 
Very true what mrmikk says.
It would be nice to see this policy done over and over again in different areas of NT.
He cant do it in any states cose he doesnt have the power too. Darn it.
 
It's all too easy to criticisize, but if you disagree with what the Coalition Government is doing on this matter, suggest a a better alternative.

Grog is a major impediment to aboriginal people progressing, but it doesn't stop there, it harms wetu people also. Aboriginal people though are suffering at a lot more serious rate based on their numbers, and this warrants action like this.


i agree but most people will tell you its racsist to single out a praticular group.
 
Interesting junglist have you ever lived here in the NT?

"Howards idea is absolutely terrible. It simply cannot work, because theres a funny hting about alcohol addictions, they kill you if you go cold turkey. Your last comment, about seeing what alcohol in aboriginal communities is laughable. The situation is NO different in white communities, its just hidden better.

You have earnt my contempt with this rant, for although there are some valid points within this legislation, it is RACIST and discriminatory. Yes, there are alcohol problems within these communities, but the problems go beyond that, Yes there are problems with sexual crimes being committed against those who cannot defend themselves, BUT THESE ARE NOT THE ONLY COMMUNITIES THESE CRIMES HAPPEN WITHIN.

The whole taking half the welfare checks - good idea, but could have been spread across the entire country, IT WOULD BE A GOOD MOVE, but it would lose howard votes, so he opts for the racist approach and goes with singling out aboriginal communities.

There havebeen so many reports, that to NOT see that this legislation is a knee jerk reaction in attempt to buy votes for the upcoming election and to deflect the public's attention away from EVERY OTHER NON-POLICY he has.. This issue is the next TAMPA crisis. If you cannot see htat, then i guess you voted for him in the last few elections, - "oh yes we know he lied to us, but we still trust him".'

This head in the sand approach will never work, and nor will instigating changes which apply only to aboriginal communities.

Many of the sex crimes which are being reported inthese communities not only happen to be perpetrated by aboriginal individuals, but by white men going in and raping kids, simply as payment for probviding a few cases of beer, or a few grams of weed.

Maybe, the cessation of prohibition, and the provision of these drugs IN A SUPERVISED fashion would make a difference.

KAVA, from the plant piper mesthiculum, has been used in a few trials in the NT WITH AMAZING RESULTS in lowering the amount of violence being perpetrated."

Get off the racist card its getting old. And why bring up other policies. This is about helping kids! Oh and your comment about Karva, hey thats a good idea, lets replace one drug with another. And how about this gem below

"There is one fantastic facet of the propsed policy, and that is to ensure that an amount out of the welfare cheques get sequestered so that they go twards feeding and clothing the kids.

This is the racist part of the policy, THAT IT ONLY APPLIES TO INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES IN THE NT.

Unfortunately Coward will not implement this in more densely populated area, DESPITE THE DIRE NEED FOR POLICIES LIKE THIS, because it will lose him votes from the people he cares about, rich white folk

Thats because the drunk men take the money and buy grog, at least the kids may get a feed. And yes it may also happen to white familys but their not at issue here, aborigional familys are. You go to a community and ask a mother if she would like half her payment so she could feed and clothe her kids and see what answer you get. So who gives a crap if Howard has singled out aborigional familys, at least the kids eat and may be a little safer!

You keep banging on about how this is not just an aborigional problem and how it should apply to everybody, well let me tell you something. In the 5 years I lived in Katherine I never once saw a drunking white couple having sex on the median strip in the middle of town. I never saw a drunken white woman run out of an ally onto the main street with a frying pan and smash a drunken white mans head in and my wife never had a drunken white woman walk up to her counter, do a crap and shake it out of her dress and then just walk away.

You like to call everyone racist but there is no such thing, there is only one race and thats the human one. And if Howards plan doesnt work well at least he had the balls to try, So whats your plan junglist besides giving them Karva to keep them calm?
 
Oh what a nice thread, so good to see people talking about things that have no real affect on them (if not for buying votes )would like to have my say but BIG BROTHER ( the mods ) is watching. No need to get an **** kicking over this, so all I will say is......................... naw better not even say that the mods are so sensitive......Maybe they may learn one day we are all entitled to are own thoughts/options.......... A little bit like are government in power at the moment....
 
This site is so sensitive that you can't even type "**** kicking". Will try another way.... A.r.s.e kicking.......... lucky for preview. I know we have younger viewers but I know the say a lot worse in the school yard. Or do we sugar coat everything here?
 
No one seems to understand that for this plan to work, or any other plan for that matter, it needs to have the FULL support of the people it is going to affect. This policy fits the definition of being racist and to all those saying "it's racist but so what? it needs to be done" as long as it fits this definition it will not be accepted be the leaders of the aboriginal community. This policy is doomed from the start wether it is a good policy or not.
 
I havnt read most of this thread ( I cant be bothered lol) but i canot see this plan having a net positive effect. What i really dont understand is how they can come up with a plan in only a few weeks wich they beleive is going to solve everything. If they really need to use a heavy handed approach (Which i still dont think they do) then surely alot of research needs to go into it before hand.
 
I havnt read most of this thread ( I cant be bothered lol) but i canot see this plan having a net positive effect. What i really dont understand is how they can come up with a plan in only a few weeks wich they beleive is going to solve everything. If they really need to use a heavy handed approach (Which i still dont think they do) then surely alot of research needs to go into it before hand.

Very similar to President Beattie's decision to build a dam on the Mary River. His decision was made in less than 2 weeks and was quoted as saying "We will build this dam whether it is feasible or not". How dumb is that! This decision was to make up for his 8 years of ineptitude and sitting on his hands and not planning ahead. This is supposed to solve Queensland's water crisis even though all the experts say it is a bad choice of sites and is too shallow for a dam. Anyone can build a dam but that doesn't mean it's going to fill, and stay full.

Anyway, Qld voted him back in and some people were quoted as saying "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know" even though he stuffed up Qld's health system, electricity problems and water supply....

So Grimbeny, all pollies come up with these jackass ideas so they look like they're actually doing something. They're all the same! Beattie even passed a law to allow politicians to tell lies in Parliament so they aren't charged over it. That's pretty honest and trustworthy isn't it!
 
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Very similar to President Beattie's decision to build a dam on the Mary River. His decision was made in less than 2 weeks and was quoted as saying "We will build this dam whether it is feasible or not". How dumb is that! This decision was to make up for his 8 years of ineptitude and sitting on his hands and not planning ahead. Not to mention that his decision was completely illegal. I do believe that there was not public consultationbefore he came out with this speech..!

Hope i can see you in the area when i take on my Town Planning/Development Assessment role at Tiaro expansa1, any tips on the area will be well appreciated.

Simone
 
i agree but most people will tell you its racsist to single out a praticular group.


Possibly, but if circumstances have dictated that the problems of alcohol abuse and the resultant issues that follow are affecting aboriginal people more so than other 'races' is it not right then to focus on them first? I don't think Howard's action in this regard constitutes racism and I am sure the likes of Noel Pearson would agree with me.
 
Possibly, but if circumstances have dictated that the problems of alcohol abuse and the resultant issues that follow are affecting aboriginal people more so than other 'races' is it not right then to focus on them first? I don't think Howard's action in this regard constitutes racism and I am sure the likes of Noel Pearson would agree with me.

Well it does constitute racism because it is wholly targeted at one ethnic group of people. There are some people here who really need to learn what the definition of racism is.

Has anyone listened to my point about this needing the support from the indigenous leaders before anything positive will happen? Can no one see that it will not be supported by the indigenous leaders while it is a racist action?
 
Waruikazi, Im hearing you, but me, Im already converted to the "lets talk and change" rather then the "Change or Big stick belta your ****" philosophy.
A lot of people would rather just believe whatever they want to believe, then listen to sound reason......

I am a bit unsure though about your "Can no one see that it will not be supported by the indigenous leaders while it is a racist action?" statement.
I would think they (like anybody) would embrace a change for the better, (that they agree with) even if it is towards Aboriginal peoples only.
Or do you mean forced on them?
 
Yes i mean when it is a forced action on them i see little hope that it will be accepted. This whole thing has the possibility of being one of the best things to happen in communities in a long while. But it needs to be what the communities want.
 
what a tangles web.

Its racist because it is targeting a specific group of people but they are the people who need the most help.
It wont work becuase the community wont except it but it is possibly the best thing that could be happening to the community...

So to solve all this what has to happen?
 
You tell me Tetra.

It's taken me along time and alot of experience to come to the views that i hold. I don't expect anyone who has not had first hand experience with the indigenous community to really understand the situation here in the NT. I don't even fully understand it.

Something needs to be done in a way that does not further insult the worlds oldest surviving culture, does not further marginalise and support racist ideoligies. Something needs to be done, but the way this new action has started and introduced i don't see it having the affect that we want it too.
 
Exactly.

Personally I think this will certainly help a very small amount of children...maybe even a handfull....however the majority will still suffer from the hands of their fathers, mothers or brothers or sisters or uncles or aunties or friends of the family or even complete strangers.

I also think that if the Government (THE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE) who have an opurtunity to do something constructive and good here, do put a plan into action that will and DOES work, fantastic! We can all feel that we have helped to make a better society for children and all.
However, if we allow an action that does not help the majority of victims of pedophilia in Aboriginal Communities, we morally, are helping to commit these acts and our hands are also tainted.
Lets hope its the right choice...........
 
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