free handling elapids

[Sdaji]

Im with kali and baxtor, what you do in your own home is your business.If you get bitten, its your own fault and you go to hospital,,,or not.
When you post pics in a forum of yourself handling a ven you can surely expect to get a lot of people to have issues with it.
Most of these people will say 'it brings the hobby into disrepute' and' you are setting a bad example for the next generation.'
Simple solution, dont post the pics...

If you get bitten, it doesn't just affect you, it gives fuel to those who want to ban the keeping of venomous snakes by private individuals. I'd hate to see us lose that right, and unfortunately it's a very real possibility. We often take what we have for granted until we no longer have it. Other peoples' bites put my license and yours at risk. I don't like that, neither should anyone else who is interested in keeping venomous snakes, or anyone interested in people having the continued ability to legally do so.

Having said that, bites due to inappropriate handling are a frequent occurence, so maybe if it was very difficult to get a license it would be a good thing - less people getting bitten is good for the tax payer (if you think that being a tax payer makes it fair enough if you take the occassional bite, you might want to look at the cost of antivenom and a stay in intensive care!). The community has a need for snake removalists, so those with 'problem wildlife'/'damage mitigation' permits would presumably still be allowed to keep elapids. Perhaps in the future we'll see only the few people who are keen enough to be right into elapids and who are willing to provide a service to the community be allowed to keep them. I'd much rather things stay as they are, which in the long term does depend on people being sensible, but I suppose the alternative has merits.

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

If you get bitten, it doesn't just affect you, it gives fuel to those who want to ban the keeping of venomous snakes by private individuals. I'd hate to see us lose that right, and unfortunately it's a very real possibility. We often take what we have for granted until we no longer have it. Other peoples' bites put my license and yours at risk. I don't like that, neither should anyone else who is interested in keeping venomous snakes, or anyone interested in people having the continued ability to legally do so.

I am curious, this point here only relates to bites that are made public? Because surely most of the bites keepers get go unreported.
Id love to know how many snakebites go unrecorded.

I also do think it is to easy for kids to their venomous keepers licence in this state.jmo

 

[BIG RYANO]

All that would acheive is to force people to keep them illegally like exotics.It wouldnt stop people keeping them. When people get a bite they would simply go to hospital and say they were bitten while walking in the bush etc. Medicare would pick up the bill and nothings different. At least if it stays the way it is, they have some kinda control over it. I dont know any elapid keepers that would stop keeping them if they barred them. They would simply let their licences expire.

 

[hornet]

you would be suprised how many herpers actually abide by the law. If elapids were banned they would be confinscating them, you wouldnt just be able to let your licence expire and hear no more.

 

[waruikazi]

All that would acheive is to force people to keep them illegally like exotics.It wouldnt stop people keeping them. When people get a bite they would simply go to hospital and say they were bitten while walking in the bush etc. Medicare would pick up the bill and nothings different. At least if it stays the way it is, they have some kinda control over it. I dont know any elapid keepers that would stop keeping them if they barred them. They would simply let their licences expire.

Be that as it may, it doesn't make what Sdaji said any less true.

 

[BIG RYANO]

I cant understand why everyone keeps going on about bites causing the authorities to clamp down on elapids. Keepers Australia wide get bitten on a monthly basis and you only ever hear about the odd case. I really think people are paranoid. The thing that would cause an uproar is if one escaped and bit an innocent kid or something like that. Is private keepers taking the odd bite really that big a deal? From what i heard from an employee of the CSL, a lot of anti-venom is eventually tossed out from not being used. Even after they give the old stuff to vets it can only be kept for so long after that before becoming useless. I think people are over reacting. Just my opinion.

 

[Kali7]

"Other peoples' bites put my license and yours at risk. "

Only if the bureaucracy is full of like minded people at all times. If that was the case you wouldn't have a license at all.

Hey cars and buses put my life at risk, and they are still on the road. Subscribe to abject paranoia and all you manage to do is buy into another self perpetuating fear campaign.

 

[waruikazi]

I cant understand why everyone keeps going on about bites causing the authorities to clamp down on elapids. Keepers Australia wide get bitten on a monthly basis and you only ever hear about the odd case. I really think people are paranoid. The thing that would cause an uproar is if one escaped and bit an innocent kid or something like that. Is private keepers taking the odd bite really that big a deal? From what i heard from an employee of the CSL, a lot of anti-venom is eventually tossed out from not being used. Even after they give the old stuff to vets it can only be kept for so long after that before becoming useless. I think people are over reacting. Just my opinion.

Well if you are going to argue that the cost doesn't matter because the antivenom expires think about the cost of a hospital stay.

 

[da_donkey]

Hey lets let people ride dirtbikes- but not do freestyle

lets let everyone surf- but not go out if its over6ft

let them drive cars- but not race them

With the way xtreame "hobbys" are now the mainstream, just about anything fun that you want to do has big risks.

 

[BIG RYANO]

It's a drop in the ocean compared to all the alcohol and tobacco related illness's in the health system. Not to mention all the other drug problems. And what about the amount of motor bike riders (motor cross) that get presented to hospitals across Australia every week? Then there's all the sports related hospital cases (footy,surfing etc). It's never ending. Have you ever been to hospital to visit a keeper bitten by a snake? The hospital staff love it. It's something different from the usual. In no way do hospitals make reptile keepers feel like their a burden on the hospital or the health system. The keepers treated like a celebrity.

 

[dansfish4tea]

here here
I dnt want the Vens to get band ive only jst started my collection (no vens) and cant wait till i can finally purches my first ven which will hopefully be a death adder
i only have jst got my class1 licence so it will be awhile yet n hope we can still keep them

 

[waruikazi]

It's a drop in the ocean compared to all the alcohol and tobacco related illness's in the health system. Not to mention all the other drug problems. And what about the amount of motor bike riders (motor cross) that get presented to hospitals across Australia every week? Then there's all the sports related hospital cases (footy,surfing etc). It's never ending. Have you ever been to hospital to visit a keeper bitten by a snake? The hospital staff love it. It's something different from the usual. In no way do hospitals make reptile keepers feel like their a burden on the hospital or the health system. The keepers treated like a celebrity.

Hooray! We'll all be treated like heros if we go to hospital with a snake bite!!! Let's all go out and get bitten.

I play sport, we are required to pay insurance in the case of injury. Motorbike riders pay higher insurance costs. And hey, other people rort the system because of their stupid actions so why shouldn't we?

Like i have said before i am sure there are legit reasons for free handling elapids from time to time and occasionally needs to be done. But IMO if you really want a snake to handle stick to a python.

 

[moosenoose]

On one hand I'm glad the advanced license in Victoria is so easily obtainable (as I needed one :lol: ), yet on the other hand it’s too open and obtainable and I feel it needs to have some stricter guidelines associated with it, sadly. Simply put, you can cough up your 160 bucks for an advanced license and seek out to buy an inland taipan with zero experience backing you! I’d hope perhaps the breeders of certain snakes are able to sensibly discriminate exactly who they sell these animals to, as it’s certainly getting to a stage where everyone’s actions (as Sdaji has mentioned) will determine exactly where this hobby is going and naturally the more it expands, so to will the number of bites from the various venomous species that will be more readily available.

One thing I've come to find is that people who bring these “exotic” snakes into certain states (eg: snakes that they are not found in these states; Adders etc) run a huge risk to themselves if they are bitten as not all hospitals stock the antivenins for these animals. I’m pretty sure Adder antivenin is only available in the city here as they stock it for the Melbourne zoo, but in the outer suburbs you might be in big trouble and may have to face a massive bill for having yourself airlifted etc. Whether I’m right or wrong here doesn’t completely matter, what matter is keepers of these animals NEED TO ENSURE their local hospital can cater for them in an emergency situation. If in doubt, ring and find out, it might be the best phone call you'll ever make!

 

[BIG RYANO]

I was just making a point Waruikazi with the celebrity thing in regards to people putting across the image of the poor hospital staff having to treat another snake keeper who's bleeding the health system dry. But i guess that went over your head. There's no problem with people like you sticking to pythons, but dont judge people who want to keep elapids and handle them anyway they want in their own home.

 

[BIG RYANO]

you would be suprised how many herpers actually abide by the law. If elapids were banned they would be confinscating them, you wouldnt just be able to let your licence expire and hear no more.

Maybe the python people who keep a few elapids might hand them in. But the people who's complete or majority of their collection are elapids are NEVER going to hand them over. All they'd do is write em all off as dead, just say OPMV or something similar wiped them,you actually dont need to provide an excuse, leave them at a mates house for a month, and cancel your licence. End of story. But to bring a bit of reality back to the argument, banning elapids will never happen. At worst they'll just make it harder to get a licence. And thats probably a good thing.

 

[waruikazi]

One thing I've come to find is that people who bring these “exotic” snakes into certain states (eg: snakes that they are not found in these states; Adders etc) run a huge risk to themselves if they are bitten as not all hospitals stock the antivenins for these animals. I’m pretty sure Adder antivenin is only available in the city here as they stock it for the Melbourne zoo, but in the outer suburbs you might be in big trouble and may have to face a massive bill for having yourself airlifted etc. Whether I’m right or wrong here doesn’t completely matter, what matter is keepers of these animals NEED TO ENSURE their local hospital can cater for them in an emergency situation. If in doubt, ring and find out, it might be the best phone call you'll ever make!

This is a very good point. Up here when i do get my cat 4 lisence, which is a good 4 years away, i am not allowed to keep some species exotic to the NT because of the difficulty in getting antivenom.

 

[waruikazi]

I was just making a point Waruikazi with the celebrity thing in regards to people putting across the image of the poor hospital staff having to treat another snake keeper who's bleeding the health system dry. But i guess that went over your head. There's no problem with people like you sticking to pythons, but dont judge people who want to keep elapids and handle them anyway they want in their own home.

No it did not go over my head. It was a ridiculous and stupid argument. You were basically saying that elapid keepers should get themselves bitten for the entertainment of hospital staff.

 

[BIG RYANO]

No it did not go over my head. It was a ridiculous and stupid argument. You were basically saying that elapid keepers should get themselves bitten for the entertainment of hospital staff.

If thats what you actually think was the point i was making you need to have a good look in the mirror. Did you finish school?

 

[waruikazi]

If thats what you actually think was the point i was making you need to have a good look in the mirror. Did you finish school?

I'm going to ignore your question because you are now trying to make this debate personal. If that was not the point that you were trying to make you worded it really really poorly. I don't recall anyone saying 'poor hospital staff' i recall people saying that the cost to health system of a keeper who gets bitten by an elapid is very high. All effort should be made to not get bitten if a keeper decides they want to keep a dangerously venomous snake.

 

[BIG RYANO]

You seem to be the only one who misread it. I'm not making it personal, i just cant believe your response. Your just so far off the mark. But i totally agree with your last sentence.