RI on woma - how long will it last?

[orsm]

I bought a woma last Friday and as luck would have it, noticed bubbles coming out of its mouth this afternoon. Went to an animal hospital in Strathfield where the vet/nurse confirmed that it's most likely suffering from respiratory infection. To prevent further loss of fluid, the snake was injected with fluid and antibiotic. Everytime I cleaned its click clack, I noticed condensation a few hours later - which didn't look too good. I have stopped drying the condensation for now since I didn't want to disturb the snake too much.

I spoke to the seller this afternoon and was told that my setup probably didn't provide sufficient heating. I was told that the temperature in the click clack should be an even 30 degrees. This is rather bizarre as the hottest part of the click clack is more than 37 degrees (it felt warm when I touched it) and the snake prefers to stay in the cooler spot in most cases.

Mu understanding is that temperature is not the only cause for RI. Is it possible for a snake to catch RI in a week just because the ambient temperature in the click clack varies by about 5 degrees (on the coolest end)? Is it possible that the snake was sick when I got it?

I am going to see Alex Rosenwax on Monday to get another round of antibiotics. Meanwhile, saliva swabs from the snake have been acquired for further analysis.

For those whose snakes have experienced RI, how long does RI on snake normally last? Is it just a waiting game?

 

[mrsshep77]

Well we have just gone thru it with our jungle and she had daily injections for 2 weeks and then went back having no symptoms whatsoever...... however within a week or so she went into a shed and the symptoms came back.... she has been back to the vet but no more injections we are just keeping her heat up and her food at more regular intervals than normally over winter. This has been since 2Jun and she still has some symptoms but time will tell inwarmer conditions. She isnt sick anymore but isnt totally over it.

Good Luck
Mell

 

[orsm]

Daily injection for 2 weeks and it's still not better? I hope it gets better soon.

It costs me $120 to get a shot in the hospital today. I sure hope it's not going to cost that much everytime. Did the vet give you a set of syringes with antibiotics so you don't have to keep going to him/her?

 

[Raptor_Reptiles]

next time go out to austral vet clinic 96069312 (they also have another clinic at canleyvale96049792) $120 for the shots sounds very high

 

[SnakePower]

Hi Orsm,
I think that the breeder should/could be partly responsible if you only got it a few days before the RI became apparent to you. Also to be bubbling at the mouth is not an early stage of RI, it is rather advanced! This (RI) can not possibly get that far in only 6 or 7 days. Maybe weasing or whisling, but not bubbling. That is RI that has gone on without being noticed, or treated.
Treatment can be long and teadious, some snakes respond quicker and better to the anibiotic treatment than others, just like people.
Most of the time if it is caught early enough, it will clear up. Sometimes in as little as a week or two with a couple of shots and proper heat. Others can take several months. Dozens of anibiotic injections and constant heat. At least 30deg in cool end for a woma! I would even have a hot spot of 40-45degs. NO water in the click clack/enclosure at all. Once a week allow a drink.
Just my 2 cents!
I wish you the best of luck with getting your woma back to good health!
Cheers,
Zac.

 

[Rennie]

A childreni of mine had RI, I went to the vet, got 1 weeks worth of shots and he was fine when I took him back to the vet the next week. It can vary I'm sure, but if its mild case it could be gone in a week.

I have to agree with Raptor_Reptiles too, at Canley Vale I got a weeks worth of shots and another snake probed and checked at the same time for half that price. Depends whats easiest for you though, yours might be closer to you and worthwhile.

 

[mrsshep77]

When our jungle got her RI we acted very quickly and the consult n injections for 2 weeks only cost about $85 and that was her injections for 2 weeks. We were told by our vet to keep her hot end at a constant 32degrees but make sure she had an area to cool down in as well. We also had to keep up her fluids and change her water bowl daily. In regards to hygiene we were not to handle other snakes within 24hrs of handling her, her enclosure had to be regularly cleaned out and disinffectant used to remove any mucous etc spread in the area.

After the 2 weeks when she went back she had been fully recovered, HOWEVER stress will bring it back on and thats what happened with our girl, she was due for a shed. The thing is your snake may recover this year fromthe RI and be healthy..... but the following winter you have to be very careful as they will be susceptible to a relapse.

The bubbling is a rather advanced stage of RI, however some snakes can decline at a faster rate than other snakes.

And thats the same with recovery, it's different for each snake.

Good Luck with your Woma
Mell

 

[mrmikk]

Hi Orsm,

I have exactly the same problem, a Woma with RI.

From experience let me say this, make sure the hot end of your enclosure is about 32 -33c, and that you have a temp gradient of several degrees happening.

As for the RI, I have had my fella on FORTRUM (anti biotic) which will deal with about 80% of organisms that cause snake RI, unfortunately he was resistant to this, so we moved to BAETRIL, which deals with about 15% of the remaining organisms. As luck would have it BAETRIL only kept the RI in check but didn't kill it, so we did a mouth swab and cultured it, finding that TOBRAMYCIN was effective. One other thing, we administered the first 2 anti biotics intramuscularly, but as the RI is localised to the very upper resp tract and the mucous is thick, we are administering the TOBRAMYCIN with a nebuliser.

This is just my experience, and not advice, so make sure you see a vet who specialises in reptiles.

Good luck

 

[mrmikk]

Just realised I didn't answer one of your questions. I bought my Woma on June 2 from a person in Townsville, when he arrived on June 4 he was bubbling, told the seller and he said he definitely didn't have RI , %$#@^. The joys of buying sight unseen.

So from June 4 until present day I am still treating him, and have had to add over $500 to the purchase price of a not cheap Woma, all becuase this particular &^%$# seller off loaded a Woma with RI knowingly!

 

[orsm]

Thanks all for the advice.

NO water in the click clack/enclosure at all. Once a week allow a drink.

Zac, I am curious about your statement above. No water whatsoever in the enclosure? I took its water bowl away yesterday since I didn't want it causing condensation in tne enclosure (the woma already caused enough condensation through its foaming). Having said that, I was going to put the water bowl back. I normally put fresh water daily. Perhaps this is not a good idea with womas? I have only kept carpets and based on what I have read on womas, the husbandry requirements are fairly similar although the latter don't appreciate high humidity. Can anyone who's kept womas confirm?

The joys of buying sight unseen.

In this case, I saw the snake for about 5 minutes in a dark alley out West. I even held it briefly before realising that it's been rolling around in its own poo. From now on, I'll only buy from people who don't mind showing buyers their setups. This way, I can also check the conditions of the snakes in detail.

 

[mrmikk]

I asked my vet about the water bowl and she said it would be fine to leave in, just have it down the cool end of the enclosure, to lessen humidity.

Anyone been told differently by a vet, I would be interested, as I am sure Orsm would be too.

 

[SnakePower]

I have been told by a number of Reptile Vets, if there is RI take the water bowl out, to make the most reduced humidity possible. If they then have a drink once or twice a week, but supervised, so that you know they have had a drink then take the bowl out again. For your woma to be bubbling at the mouth means it has it's lungs filled with fluid and is coming back up the respitory tract to create the bubbling. I definately would not leave water in with it. A snakes anatomy has the lungs in a reservour below the height of the breathing tract so for the bubbling to happen the large area of the lungs have to fill before it is possible for any bubbling to occur. If I am wrong (someone who is an expert) please correct me! Therefore you would want to keep the dryest condtions possible to help allow the fluid to go back down.

 

[nightowl]

IMO, I wouldn't take the water bowl out because of the risk of dehydrating the animal. If the snake is going through a course of antibiotics it will need a constant temp of around 30 deg to aid in absorption of the drug and avoid toxicity. To be in these temps constantly over a period of weeks it will need to rehydrate so a water bowl in the cool end of the enclosure would be advised.

I had a Port Mac adult with RI last year and she had 5 injections of Fortum (1 every 3 days). She was kept in a constant 30 deg temp and normal enclosure humidity. She made a full recovery by the last course of Fortum.

Prior to starting the antibiotic she was breathing bubbles and chunks of mucus were being 'coughed' up all over the enclosure and it was like this less than a week after I bought her. When I did buy her there were no symptoms noticeable at the time of purchase so if she did have it then, it was very minor.

Cheers

 

[mrsshep77]

IMO, I wouldn't take the water bowl out because of the risk of dehydrating the animal. If the snake is going through a course of antibiotics it will need a constant temp of around 30 deg to aid in absorption of the drug and avoid toxicity. To be in these temps constantly over a period of weeks it will need to rehydrate so a water bowl in the cool end of the enclosure would be advised.

I agree with Nightowl, and this is what my vet told me as well. Whilst the snake is on antibiotics the snake needs a constant hot end of 30 -32 plus a cool end so they can thermo-regulate their body heat plus they need fresh water daily.
Too much heat is just as bad as no heat at all...

 

[orsm]

Thanks for the advice. Given the severity of the infection, I have placed the snake with the vet for the next few days or so so he can give it daily fluid injection (if required). The snake's going to get another 2 rounds of antibiotic from the vet and I'll probably have to perform the injections myself when it comes back.

nightowl, the symptoms you have described are exactly what I am seeing with my woma. I feel sorry for the little bugger since it's lost quite a fair bit of conditioning in a week. I wish I had known about the infection in advance so I could have intercepted it earlier. I am still perplexed at the rate of infection though - a week is rather quick. Oh well, hopefully it'll get better soon.

 

[nightowl]

Good luck with the little fella orsm. Hope all goes well for you and the woma.

Cheers
Shane

 

[nickamon]

A childreni of mine had RI, I went to the vet, got 1 weeks worth of shots and he was fine when I took him back to the vet the next week. It can vary I'm sure, but if its mild case it could be gone in a week.

*nods* If you catch the RI early, then one week of antibiotics and increased heat should do the trick.