A bit of a rant.

[pixie]

Well guys, here is my rant for tonight, If you're an anti-vaxxer please stop reading now...

the vaccination "debate" has been getting a lot of telly recently because of the group the "Australian Vaccination Network" they use bully tactics on their facebook page and ban anyone who tries to give them updated information proving there is no link between vaccines and autism, recently I have found out that Jenny McCarthy (Jim Carrey's ex wife and a HUUUGE anti-vaxxer) is rumoured to be joining the american telly show "The view". I don't watch the view but I feel as though the target audience of the show is possibly the most vulnerable to her influence.

Anyway, I think it really sucks that people are able to spread dangerous misinformation through all aspects of the media! I know it shouldn't bother me cause I'm a fully vaccinated, healthy adult, but for a microbiology subject at uni we watched a DVD showing the effects of polio, and also showing a recent case of pertussis, watching thing young baby struggle to breathe brought tears to my eyes and I was extremely upset by the video.

 

[sd1981]

Firstly, im going to start by saying that Im not against vaccination, I was vaccinated as a child and i have had no periods of illness ever in my life....

My now 3 yo son had his 18 month vaccination as per the vaccination schedule that the Medical Association puts out. After having his vaccination, he started to break out in small spots, almost like a measles rash. We were advised that he may have a minor reaction to this as it was a stronger vaccination than he had received prior. The rash lingered and about a week later, my son had a major reaction after ingesting some milk chocolate m&m's. The minor spotty rash blew out into large welts and blotches covering approximately 90% of his body also leading to anaphylaxis and other major problems.... After around 10-12 months of food hypersensitivity to almost everything that was being given to him, the doctors realised that this adverse reaction had been brought upon by one of his vaccinations. Up until recently he has been suffering hypersensitivity to plenty of foods which had never been a problem prior to his immunisation and my wife and I are now concerned about whether he will have a reaction after eating anything. I don't blame the doctors for any of the problems, but I do think about the new variations of disease and illness becoming prevailant since the introductions of vaccination, and whether these vaccines are potentially causing other health issues at all... My son is now fine, but we hold our breath if he's eating something and stops chewing, and we're continually asking if he's ok while eating as this issue could potentially end his life.... I'm not against immunisation, but I do feel that people who spout the rubbish about non immunised kids infecting their immunised children need to understand that it would really be the other way around (the immunised kids should in theory, be stronger in antibodies than the non immunised kids, thus protecting them and leaving the non immunised kids exposed to any virus/illness).

Theres my rant for the day.....

 

[Pythoninfinite]

It should all be about herd safety - the unvaccinated in our population are putting the entire population at risk. The quackery that goes with the "against" arguments is simply stupid.

I doubt very much that any doctor would come out, after 10-12 months, and absolutely attribute your child's food sensitivity to a vaccination a year before. That would be an impossible bow to draw. Food allergies can manifest themselves at any time in anyone's life, who's to say that something in the compounds and chemicals in M&Ms didn't kick off the reaction you saw?

There are vast numbers more children worldwide who die or live debilitated lives because they were NOT vaccinated, than there are kids who suffer or die because they were vaccinated.

Jamie

 

[Ramy]

I agree with SD1981. It sucks, but every now and then there are people who react severely to vaccines. It sucks. Some people are allergic to products in the vaccines and can't continue them, some people have a worse reaction to them. I'm sorry to hear that your son had such a severe reaction, seeing someone young have an autoimmune reaction like that is pretty scary. Sounds like he had a trigger-happy immune system to begin with?

Fortunately, he's in the minority. And if everyone else gets their vaccinations, even if he doesn't get any others, he should be protected from those illnesses. Because it's all about herd immunity.

Also, as to your other comment:
"but I do think about the new variations of disease and illness becoming prevailant since the introductions of vaccination, and whether these vaccines are potentially causing other health issues at all... "
I'd like to point out that most illnesses that appear to be becoming more prevailent are usually just becoming more frequently diagnosed. There is a big difference. Sure, there's an observable pattern between vaccines and increasing diagnosis of diseases, but the causation is more likely to be MEDICAL RESEARCH. Autism was defined as we currently know it in the 1900s, where vaccinations were introduced in the 1700s. It's taken us a very long time to begin to understand mental illness, the word autism was originally coined to describe behaviour in people with schizophrenia (That's my new fact for the day). The increasing diagnosis of things like MS and Autism and even breast cancer is all because we're learning how to diagnose it, not because we're introducing harmful pathogens into our bodies. We've also got drastically increased life expenctancies over the last few hundred years, so I think that's a good enough reason to trust the research that says vaccines HELP.

Sorry, it's just an easy rant to join in on.

 

[Jacknife]

Well guys, here is my rant for tonight, If you're an anti-vaxxer please stop reading now...

the vaccination "debate" has been getting a lot of telly recently because of the group the "Australian Vaccination Network" they use bully tactics on their facebook page and ban anyone who tries to give them updated information proving there is no link between vaccines and autism, recently I have found out that Jenny McCarthy (Jim Carrey's ex wife and a HUUUGE anti-vaxxer) is rumoured to be joining the american telly show "The view". I don't watch the view but I feel as though the target audience of the show is possibly the most vulnerable to her influence.

Anyway, I think it really sucks that people are able to spread dangerous misinformation through all aspects of the media! I know it shouldn't bother me cause I'm a fully vaccinated, healthy adult, but for a microbiology subject at uni we watched a DVD showing the effects of polio, and also showing a recent case of pertussis, watching thing young baby struggle to breathe brought tears to my eyes and I was extremely upset by the video.

Stupid people will be stupid people. And stupid people will always listen to other stupid people.
If anyone is dumb enough to watch The View and take JENNY MCCARTHY'S advice - on anything! - then they pretty much deserve the stupidity river that awaits...

 

[Steveycrack]

Stupid people will be stupid people. And stupid people will always listen to other stupid people.
If anyone is dumb enough to watch The View and take JENNY MCCARTHY'S advice - on anything! - then they pretty much deserve the stupidity river that awaits...

^ This

 

[Varanoidea]

This is a statistical debate. Vaccinated children who develop health issues are much much lower than people who die due to not being vaccinated. To single out a single individual child who develops autism and then go screaming 'VACCINATIONS ARE CAUSING THIS!' is arrogant and childish.

EDIT: I am for vaccination, but I don't believe in stopping your child eating dirt and locking them away. The immune system needs to be exposed to the dirt and the mild nasties in the environment in order to train itself against such things. Preventing this and your child will be made of glass. That said I don't want natural selection to take it's course and have my child killed by an illness as nature intended, so I'll vaccinate. At the end of the day, nobody can tell someone else what to do with their child.

 

[Ramy]

At the end of the day, nobody can tell someone else what to do with their child.

Except that with vaccinations, people not vaccinating their kids is doing harm to other people too. Especially those people who can't have vaccines for whatever reason, or who don't develop an immunity after the vaccine (It happens). Those people are only protected by the herd immunity, so the people making stupid decisions aren't just risking their own child's health. I think as a group we have the right to tell people that they have to vaccinate if it's reasonable to do so. Otherwise it stops working.

 

[pixie]

I am for vaccination, but I don't believe in stopping your child eating dirt and locking them away. The immune system needs to be exposed to the dirt and the mild nasties in the environment in order to train itself against such things. Preventing this and your child will be made of glass. That said I don't want natural selection to take it's course and have my child killed by an illness as nature intended, so I'll vaccinate. At the end of the day, nobody can tell someone else what to do with their child.

Firstly - I am a supporter of letting kids eat dirt!
Secondly, the sad reality is that being able to get pregnant does not guarantee people know what's best for their children.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

It's interesting that we have to have up-to-date vaccinations for our dogs & cats when they go into boarding facilities. The same should apply to kids going to school or kindy. You only have to see a child (or even an adult) with whooping cough - to name one disease that is making a comeback because of low immunisation rates - to understand the distress this disease causes.

Jamie

 

[Varanoidea]

Except that with vaccinations, people not vaccinating their kids is doing harm to other people too. Especially those people who can't have vaccines for whatever reason, or who don't develop an immunity after the vaccine (It happens). Those people are only protected by the herd immunity, so the people making stupid decisions aren't just risking their own child's health. I think as a group we have the right to tell people that they have to vaccinate if it's reasonable to do so. Otherwise it stops working.

While that is a possibility and I somewhat agree in no future will people be allowed to tell others what they have to do with their child. It will just never happen on moral grounds, so that isn't a valid argument to make.

 

[Ramy]

It's interesting that we have to have up-to-date vaccinations for our dogs & cats when they go into boarding facilities. The same should apply to kids going to school or kindy.

I believe there's pressure to allow pre-schools and daycare to deny access to unvaccinated children. Obviously you can't do that with school in general because it's compulsory, and it'll be a shame if it penalises children who are allergic. I hope it ends up being people who have chosen not to vaccinate. But I think it's a good idea.

 

[sd1981]

It should all be about herd safety - the unvaccinated in our population are putting the entire population at risk. The quackery that goes with the "against" arguments is simply stupid.

I doubt very much that any doctor would come out, after 10-12 months, and absolutely attribute your child's food sensitivity to a vaccination a year before. That would be an impossible bow to draw. Food allergies can manifest themselves at any time in anyone's life, who's to say that something in the compounds and chemicals in M&Ms didn't kick off the reaction you saw?

There are vast numbers more children worldwide who die or live debilitated lives because they were NOT vaccinated, than there are kids who suffer or die because they were vaccinated.

Jamie

I'm not against vaccination, and I do believe that having people vaccinated does build up their immune system and that can only be a good thing. My comment about the kids who are immunised not being the ones at risk is based on the theory that if youre immunised, you are more likely to be immune to those viruses, so a non immunised person would be at a higher risk than an immune one.... ie: a dog who has had the parvo vaccine would be safer to interact with an infected dog, than a non immunised dog playing with a parvo infected puppy ( please correct me if Im wrong). Getting back to my sons issue, The specialists in my sons case, made the initial diagnosis within a few weeks of the immunisation and the fact that it continued for 10-12 months was something that they believed to confirm their earlier diagnosis.My son has had allergies tests done, and has been confirmed to be not allergic to any raw foods, preservatives or insects, this was only able to be done after the reaction subsided completely, as the sensitivity would create false readings in pretty much everything... There have been many documented cases worldwide in which immunisations have kick started any weaknesses within a persons immune system, and it can be debated until the cows come home as to the origins of these issues. We chose to do it, and had side effects which were extreme but documented as a possibility for that immunisation, and thankfully didnt cause any irreversible damage to our son. We've been advised by the specialists that looked after our son, that for his 4 year vacs, that he should be admitted to have them done, just as a precaution... It's scary, and we can only go off the information we're given, so its very important to ensure that the right information is delivered. My wife and I do plan on continuing with the vaccinations because we both believe that it's safer for our children... It's a risk, but surely the risks are far outweighed by the rewards...
cheers,
Simon

 

[RubberDucky]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you go overseas to certain countries, you need to be immunised and show those papers? - Just a thought.

I think parents who don't give their kids vaccines do their kids a disservice. While some children do have bad reactions to vaccines... imagine if they got the real thing? I would assume that it could have been a lot worse, that's not to say having a child become ill due to vaccination isn't the most scariest thing on the planet - anything with your babies health on the line is scary.

What I'm more worried about is parent's who don't allow their children to be exposed to the nasty's..dirt...bacteria in the dirt... kids at pre-school. I knew a kid who's parent's were religious cleaners, the poor boy wasn't allowed to play in the sandpit at lunch, he wasn't allowed to go on the jungle equipment. He ALWAYS got sick. He was always sick with a cold, or a flu, or a fever. His parent's wouldn't let him come to school for one to two weeks if he showed signs of a cold.

I also worry about the chemicals that we ingest as women while pregnant, or, even more, what we don't eat. The restrictions and what we're told to eat when pregnant is enormous, the preservatives in foods that we love must have some kind of impact. Even in fresh foods, pesticides, or the stimulants for growth of our fruit, vegetable and meat products.

How do we know that's not affecting unborn babies?

While vaccines are important, and I believe every kid should get them (unless they do have an adverse reaction,) I also think our environment has a big part in the woes of illness.

 

[Stuart]

Hang on, are there people out there that do not approve of vaccinations? I would like them to spend a year in Central or Southern Africa and see if they still believe it when they return.

 

[Ramy]

Jabbed - Love, Fear And Vaccines : Video : SBS Documentary

I haven't gotten around to watching it yet, but it's got good reviews.

 

[Ramy]

We've been advised by the specialists that looked after our son, that for his 4 year vacs, that he should be admitted to have them done, just as a precaution... It's scary, and we can only go off the information we're given, so its very important to ensure that the right information is delivered. My wife and I do plan on continuing with the vaccinations because we both believe that it's safer for our children... It's a risk, but surely the risks are far outweighed by the rewards...

That's a really scary decision to have to make. Given his severe reactions, you'd be justified in not finishing the vaccines and relying on herd immunity. It's the people who are terrified of autism and similar unproven consequences who I consider to be in the wrong for chosing not to vaccinate. If you know your son is unlucky and has a severe reaction, is it worth the risk?

 

[Skeptic]

Correlation does not equal causation. Just because your child gets sick or behaves differently shortly after a vaccination doesn't mean it's a result of the vaccination. You cannot draw any conclusions from a study with one subject. My heart goes out to any parents with children who suffer in any way at all but one needs only to look at the infant mortality rates before vaccines were introduced to get perspective. They just work.

As far as the claims to do with vaccines causing autism, these have been debunked long ago. The main argument was that a mercury based preservative Thimerosal was the trigger. Well it turns out there's more mercury in a tuna sandwich than a vaccine, however, Thimerosal was removed and guess what, autism rates didn't budge. Did this silence the anti vaccers? No way! These people are ideologues pure and simple and flat out refuse to look at the evidence. Statistics don't lie.

Take a look:

Anti-Vaccine Body Count

 

[spud_meister]

I believe there's pressure to allow pre-schools and daycare to deny access to unvaccinated children.

In Victoria you can deny childcare if the kids vaccines aren't up-to-date.

To the people who seriously believe vaccines cause Autism, if no-one knows what causes it except you lot, then you're either geniuses or deluded.

 

[OldestMagician]

I'd rather my kid got Autism than died.