A plea to all forum users.

[Bluetongue1]

I fear you will find there is no scope for change of the website or the moderation process. The main reason being that anything likely to reduce the volume of traffic would be unacceptable to the owner(s) as it is a sponsored site where businesses are attracted by the degree of exposure.

“I am a newb as well and even though the person I have delt with is friendly I am a bit worried about asking questions as I have read some rude posts.” This is a post I have simply cut and pasted – sadly there are many others like it. What does this say about APS?

I believe that there is an established culture amongst a large number of APS members that it is alright to ridicule others for your own amusement or for that of your ‘mates’. This is across the board, from some of the most experienced and knowledgeable members all the way through to newbies barely into double posting figures, who pick up on it quickly because it is prevalent.

As Deadpan so succinctly put it, one word describes what is missing and what is needed – respect. If we were to accord each other the same level of respect as we do when conversing with people face to face, threads like this would never be. It is not like the OP is asking users to do something abnormal or difficult... just act the same as they do in everyday life. Just because your conversation comes up on a screen, does not mean it is some sort of video game! It’s a real person on the other end.

So why the excuses still? "It’s the internet therefore.." therefore nothing! I can show you other reptile forums where people being abusive of others is almost non-existent and certainly a very rare occurrence. So don’t tell me it cannot be done! And don’t give me excuses. “You will never change it so why bother?” I question the true values underlying that defeatist outlook. The effort required is no more than you would exercise in a conversation at work or school. I personally can only conclude then that the reluctance to make any effort to change is because they do not want change. The only logical reason – they have a vested interest in maintaining things as they are. Wouldn't do to sacrifice their entertainment.

A small change in attitude can make a huge change in tone. There will always be disagreements and sometimes even personality clashes. However, it makes a big difference to the working atmosphere when they are the exception rather than the rule. That small change in attitude would allow “all forum users to discuss topics in a social & meaningful way” ...and to feel comfortable and enjoy their time on APS.

While changes from above may not be possible, threads like this make it very clear that change can happen from within. Thanks Ian.

Blue

 

[Kam333]

I fear you will find there is no scope for change of the website or the moderation process. The main reason being that anything likely to reduce the volume of traffic would be unacceptable to the owner(s) as it is a sponsored site and where businesses are attracted by the degree of exposure.

“I am a newb as well and even though the person I have delt with is friendly I am a bit worried about asking questions as I have read some rude posts.” This is a post I have simply cut and pasted – sadly there are many others like it. What does this say about APS?

I believe that there is an established culture amongst a large number of APS members that it is alright to ridicule others for your own amusement or for that of your ‘mates’. This is across the board, from some of the most experienced and knowledgeable members all the way through to newbies barely into double posting figures, who pick up on quickly because it is prevlent.

As Deadpan so succinctly put it, one word describes what is missing and what is needed – respect. If we were to accord each other the same level of respect as we do when conversing with people face to face, threads like this would never be. It is not like there is any expectation for users to something abnormal... just act the same as they do in everyday life. It’s not a video game! It’s a real person on the other end.

So why the excuses? It’s the internet therefore... nothing! I can show you other reptile forums where people being abusive of others is almost non-existent and certainly a very rare occurrence. So don’t tell me it cannot be done! And don’t give me excuses. “You will never change it so why bother?” I question the true values underlying that defeatist outlook. The effort required is no more than you would exercise in a conversation at work or school. I can only conclude then taht the reluctance to make any effort to change is because they do not want change. The reason – they have a vested interest in maintaining things as they are.

A small change in attitude can make a huge change tone. There will always be disagreements and sometimes even personality clashes. However, it makes a big difference to the working atmosphere when they are the exception rather than the rule. That small change in attitude would allow “all forum users to discuss topics in a social & meaningful way.” and to feel comfortable and enjoy their time on APS.

While changes from above may not be possible, threads like this make it very clear that change can happen from within. Thanks Ian.

Blue

You are absolutely correct. I came on to this forum knowing very well the attitude of some of the members here. . . . but I must admit I have been a little surprised by the behaviour of some of the more knowledgeable members (arrogance does not denote intelligence). I am not easily fazed by arrogant behaviour and aggressive attitudes but I can only imagine the shock and dismay of someone truly asking a question to be called troll or just downright belittled by the hoards. It would also pay to note that we do not know the knowledge base of some of these new posters and I dont think you can truly decipher this via what they have written within a few posts. Maybe if we cant all play nice it's time to take our toys and go home.

 

[Recharge]

vote one for fluffy mitten handling!

part of the problem is this all goes too far, people get bent out of shape even with careful consideration at times, simply because some people cannot handle constructive criticism of any type what so ever.

"if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything" well, I don't agree with that sentiment at all, some people, when doing something really stupid NEED a good toe to the backside, you get people asking advise and then completely ignoring the best advice available, to the point some of the best keepers no longer post on this forum, it is everyone's loss in valuable experience.

but *shrug* what can you do?

 

[Waterrat]

I am still learning and improving my diplomacy. I can't respect idiots and lazy people but I can respectfully ignore them.

 

[Kam333]

I am still learning and improving my diplomacy. I can't respect idiots and lazy people but I can respectfully ignore them.

Does this apply to both of you

 

[SamNabz]

My wife, whom builds websites and has and is building forums took one look at the structure/layout and said she thought it would be a nightmare to navigate. . . but in defence she also pointed out the amount of time it would take to reformat espescially if you want to keep all the original posts

Hey Kam, I'd have to disagree with your wife on this one mate. As far as forums go, I think APS is one of the easiest to navigate through. All the section titles are well suited and pretty self explanatory...

As for reformatting, there is no reason to do so. All we are suggesting is to change the topics that appear on the home/landing page to be reptile related only, which I'm pretty certain is done via the administration panel if I remember correctly from the last time I was in the back end of a vBulletin site.

It is also just as easy to add a new section for all the "name my..." etc. threads. Granted you would need to move some threads from the Herp Help section to the newly appointed section, but only the most recent - the rest can/should be deleted.

 

[Kam333]

Hey Kam, I'd have to disagree with your wife on this one mate. As far as forums go, I think APS is one of the easiest to navigate through. All the section titles are well suited and pretty self explanatory...

As for reformatting, there is no reason to do so. All we are suggesting is to change the topics that appear on the home/landing page to be reptile related only, which I'm pretty certain is done via the administration panel if I remember correctly from the last time I was in the back end of a vBulletin site.

It is also just as easy to add a new section for all the "name my..." etc. threads. Granted you would need to move some threads from the Herp Help section to the newly appointed section, but only the most recent - the rest can/should be deleted.

Well I have to say Im out of my depth on this one, my wife is the IT wiz, I had very little knowledge on Computers except for the best adult sites. So I cant add much to this except for my initial comment. . . albeit second hand information, will have to ask her to elaborate.

Kam

 

[CrystalMoon]

I feel that interacting via a computer may somewhat desensitize people, because if things get too heated or not pleasant they can press a button and walk away without any "real" consequence to them. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I am no village idiot either. I am very cautious in judging people at all, be it on here or in real life, simply because I dont know all the facts surrounding them. People can behave in a stupid or idiotic manner/ in a verbal way, that doesnt mean they are permanently an idiot lol. People may use bad grammar, or poor sentence construction and in doing so give us a misleading context of what their questions/statements are asking/saying. I find if I take the time to read something that seems odd or silly I can see a different slant on it or I then ask the OP for more information. I have a lot of patience for Animals and People, not every-one does which is fine. But I agree with a lot of others on here, it doesnt take much to be pleasant and "respectful". No-one has to agree on everything, but you can be polite in how you disagree. To be truthful I dont think APS is that bad, I was a moderator on a parenting site and I actually left that site because of the grandstanding, cyber bullying and sheer nastiness that I watched develop over a 2-3 year span. I do feel that there seems to be a growing lack of patience toward new comers and their questions? I have only been on the site for 12 months, so maybe it is a cycle? I love APS for all it's members and the information I have learned from here, I think your all pretty great even the impatient members

 

[PythonLegs]

Haha...notice how Ian pouts when someone posts a differing opinion. I think the root of this post is really a plea to users to agree with everything Ian says and stop making him feel sad.

 

[CrystalMoon]

Haha...notice how Ian pouts when someone posts a differing opinion. I think the root of this post is really a plea to users to agree with everything Ian says and stop making him feel sad.

Off to the naughty corner with you

 

[Kam333]

Haha...notice how Ian pouts when someone posts a differing opinion. I think the root of this post is really a plea to users to agree with everything Ian says and stop making him feel sad.

I must have been using this forum all wrong, cause I didnt know you could see what other members were doing. . . knew I should have subscribed.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

It is also very easy to report a post just by clicking on the little icon at the bottom left hand corner of the post.

I find it hard to see how people can judge what i am doing or thinking. This thread was created to bring attention to abnoxious behavour & not spelling mistakes or how i feel or where i am from. I think that it has done this.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Kam333]

It is also very easy to report a post just by clicking on the little icon at the bottom left hand corner of the post.

I find it hard to see how people can judge what i am doing or thinking. This thread was created to bring attention to abnoxious behavour & not spelling mistakes or how i feel or where i am from. I think that it has done this.

Cheers
Ian

Nah Ian, it has just highlighted some of the points you were making. . . smile and the world will smile with you and now we have special Apps on forums that can show what you are doing it just makes it easier

 

[Waterrat]

Does this apply to both of you

Nah, he can be hideously nasty at times but we usually don't argue, I keep him under control most the time .... but he slips out now and then. What can I do?

 

[Bluetongue1]

There are any number of issues that can be raised here, many of which are not easily solved. Let’s not get side-tracked but instead, keep our eyes on the ball.

This thread is about a specific problem that can be readily addressed. Clearly, a lot of regular users of this forum want it addressed. There are many posts spread through other threads requesting the same thing. The reason APS should address is has nothing to do with whether it has been addressed in other forums (other than maybe to demonstrate that it is achievable.

I would just like mention the other side of coin. What do you do if someone is rude, abusive, personally derogatory or any anything else that is clearly disrespectful of another. Someone earlier on suggested tit for tat. So how does responding in kind put an end to the practice? In my experience, it merely adds fuel to the fire and often result in upping the ante. So how should we react?

Very few people use the triangular moderator’s button (bottom left of a post). Hit that on the unacceptable comment and a screen will open requesting why you are notifying the mods of that comment. A simple description is all that is needed, such as “rude”, “derogatory”, “ridicule” etc. That then brings it to their immediate attention when one is on duty. Otherwise they have to wade through every post in every thread looking for inappropriate comments. If you want it to work it is critically important that you do this.

Help the mods to help us! Very important!

Blue

 

[Tristan]

My wife, whom builds websites and has and is building forums took one look at the structure/layout and said she thought it would be a nightmare to navigate. . . but in defence she also pointed out the amount of time it would take to reformat espescially if you want to keep all the original posts

i work in IT and i visit a few forums and whilst most are poorly designed, i don't think APS is particularly terrible but i would not say its good either, but like all things as they grow in popularity and size the site will continue to develop and hopefully improve.

i spend a bit of time at Whirlpool tech forums and to give you an idea of its size this was taken just now.
497,081 registered members
19,392 visited in past 24 hrs
1,700 members are online now
1,722 guests are visiting
1,716,382 threads
34,158,454 posts

that forum is very busy, and very well monitored and designed.but even on that forum the search option is not in the clearest and most obvious location.

 

[moosenoose]

This is a thread for likes!

 

[CrystalMoon]

This is a thread for likes!

Arent they all?

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

There are any number of issues that can be raised here, many of which are not easily solved. Let’s not get side-tracked but instead, keep our eyes on the ball.

This thread is about a specific problem that can be readily addressed. Clearly, a lot of regular users of this forum want it addressed. There are many posts spread through other threads requesting the same thing. The reason APS should address is has nothing to do with whether it has been addressed in other forums (other than maybe to demonstrate that it is achievable.

I would just like mention the other side of coin. What do you do if someone is rude, abusive, personally derogatory or any anything else that is clearly disrespectful of another. Someone earlier on suggested tit for tat. So how does responding in kind put an end to the practice? In my experience, it merely adds fuel to the fire and often result in upping the ante. So how should we react?

Very few people use the triangular moderator’s button (bottom left of a post). Hit that on the unacceptable comment and a screen will open requesting why you are notifying the mods of that comment. A simple description is all that is needed, such as “rude”, “derogatory”, “ridicule” etc. That then brings it to their immediate attention when one is on duty. Otherwise they have to wade through every post in every thread looking for inappropriate comments. If you want it to work it is critically important that you do this.

Help the mods to help us! Very important!

Blue

Well said Blue,
I for one have never hit that little icon, i choose to ignore, but for the better of the forum & future users i might start to do so. Otherwise people like yourself & me will not continue & some might just say good riddens of them, but there has been too many gone from here allready.

Cheers
Ian

 

[richardsc]

its all ways about sides on here,even this thread,lots of negatives aboutpeople always sayingnegative things inothers threads,but it goes both ways,yes the negative non useful replys are annoying,but no more annoying than the folk filling the same threads with whining about it,waa waa,4 pages and only a couple of good posts in this thread,isnt that also filling a thread with crap?

if people just ignored the stupidity,concentrated on the actual thread instead of concentrating on being douche bags to one another,u would find alot of the stupid posts would go away,half the time its to get a reaction,why give folk the satisfaction of replying,makes u as bad as them i reckon,sometimes just ignoring it makes them look like tools enough,no need to join them in that stake