Albino Diamond Python?

[nintendont]

This may rub some people the wrong way but I have been thinking about this a lot and I want answers. I prefer soul-crushing honesty over lies and misleading information just for someone to get-rich-quick.
Once a mutation occurs in a subspecies that already exists in another, is their any way to prove it as pure and not a
cross? An example (if my maths is right) is this:
Everybody wants an albino diamond right? So if I breed:


Diamond X Albino Darwin (could do now)
=50/50 het X 50/50 het (3 years waiting time)
=Albino 50/50 X Pure Diamond (3 years)
=75% Diamond het X 75% Diamond het (3 years)
=87% Albino Diamonds


That project would take about 9 years (there may be shortcuts I dont really know) and result in (I imagine) pretty pure looking albino diamonds.
I have only started keeping snakes in the last year or so, so I obviously havnt started this and see little point because somebody is probably near the end of it (I dont even know how long Albino Darwins have been around exactly...) But my point is, how do I know what a seller is claiming to be pure is exactly that and not just a grab for some quick and easy $$$$?
I know I am a cynic, but when it is a subject that I am genuinely interested in, as I'm sure everybody else here is, I think we all deserve to know the truth and have absolutely zero doubt in our minds. I am not sure how some users dont stop to ask these questions and instead give congratulations and flame on cynics like myself.


I guess in summary, I just want to know when the first albino diamond python (or jungle, or any other subspecies)
emerges from the woodwork in years to come, how do I know that it is not just a product of cross-breeding like I illustrated in the second paragraph? Or do I just have to shut my virtual mouth and believe everything that anybody claims to be true?

 

[MesseNoire]

Lots of research I guess. If you had said opportunity to buy an albino diamond or jungle, why not post a thread here asking if they're established or even pming some of the senior members,

I read a thread a while ago about the process you described and if I remember correctly once crossed it will be impossible to completely remove one species from the pool.

 

[Chris1]

wouldnt 75% diamond het X 75% diamond het only equal 75% albino diamond? (not that thats really the point of the thread)


Interesting question, i read that thread too fractal man, i think it got up to 99% pure after 10 generations or something, i guess not even DNA testing would pick up a mixed animal from a real exciting new morph by then.

it would be a real shame if in 10 years time someone really did get lucky enough to produce albino diamonds and no one believed them!!

 

[wokka]

Work out how many animals you would be feeding and housing with all those unproven possible hets. It would be a very beneficial project for Rodent breeders!
Places like Snake ranch, who already have true Albino diamond would beat you to the post without compromising their integrity, at the same time

 

[junglepython2]

Snake ranch have an albino diamond? How did I miss that! Or do you mean the hypo that they posted?

 

[Chris1]

Places like Snake ranch, who already have true Albino diamond would beat you to the post without compromising their integrity, at the same time

is that the really pale one on the FB page??
I didnt realise that was considered an albino, unless ive missed something even more exciting!!.

 

[Chris1]

oops, JP beat me,..by seconds!!!

 

[RedFox]

Since albino Darwin appeared they have being crossed with just about if not all subspecies. The only way to ensure purity of a subspecies is for previous breedings to be documented, even then it comes down to trust.

I am interested to see when the website documenting the pure coastal albino that was recently posted on another forum is up and running.

 

[solar 17]

One question l have on this subject: Has anybody sequenced the DNA to prove one way or another if its a Diamond 100% ? and part B to this question is as l believe it to be there is only one place in Australia that is accredited/able to and as l believe to be the case they are not interested in these cases.....solar 17

 

[SpilotaFreak78]

This may rub some people the wrong way but I have been thinking about this a lot and I want answers. I prefer soul-crushing honesty over lies and misleading information just for someone to get-rich-quick.
Once a mutation occurs in a subspecies that already exists in another, is their any way to prove it as pure and not a
cross? An example (if my maths is right) is this:
Everybody wants an albino diamond right? So if I breed:


Diamond X Albino Darwin (could do now)
=50/50 het X 50/50 het (3 years waiting time)
=Albino 50/50 X Pure Diamond (3 years)
=75% Diamond het X 75% Diamond het (3 years)
=87% Albino Diamonds


That project would take about 9 years (there may be shortcuts I dont really know) and result in (I imagine) pretty pure looking albino diamonds.
I have only started keeping snakes in the last year or so, so I obviously havnt started this and see little point because somebody is probably near the end of it (I dont even know how long Albino Darwins have been around exactly...) But my point is, how do I know what a seller is claiming to be pure is exactly that and not just a grab for some quick and easy $$$$?
I know I am a cynic, but when it is a subject that I am genuinely interested in, as I'm sure everybody else here is, I think we all deserve to know the truth and have absolutely zero doubt in our minds. I am not sure how some users dont stop to ask these questions and instead give congratulations and flame on cynics like myself.


I guess in summary, I just want to know when the first albino diamond python (or jungle, or any other subspecies)
emerges from the woodwork in years to come, how do I know that it is not just a product of cross-breeding like I illustrated in the second paragraph? Or do I just have to shut my virtual mouth and believe everything that anybody claims to be true?

I would wait until someone proves out the paradox Albinos before even bothering

 

[wokka]

That is how rumours start. I dont know if SR has an Albino diamond. i probably confused their RBB and a hypo diamond.

 

[nintendont]

I think people missed the point of the question (except for Redfox) I was really just using an albino diamond as an example. I really wanted to know how any albino morelia spilota could be proven pure and not traced back to an albino darwin, but I think my fears have been realised and it is not an easy thing to do and if it true Redfox, that some trust is required, then I have no excitement left for future albino subspecies. People will do anything for money and in this case there is a lot of money to be made, in my opinion: in a fraudulent way that noone can even prove. I only trust myself and family members (most anyway lol) and I think that is a safe way to live life.
Bring on a Piebald jungle python or a Hyper scrubbie and I will have no doubts though...hmmm pied jungle...how good would that be....hmmm

 

[sharky]

No, you couldn't. Through generations and generations of breeding the darwnXdiamond babies back to pure diamonds, you will never have a 100% diamond. It will always be DiamondXDarwin. If you are patient enough you could probably get a 99.9% albino diamond from this cross, but never a pure one. If that makes sense?

 

[SpilotaFreak78]

about piebalds, again that goes back to a paradox, also called a chimera animal, its unproven in carpets atm, but likely to be a fusion between twins still developing in the egg and only one animal hatched with two different genetic traits, i.e partial luecism or paradox albino

 

[nintendont]

No, you couldn't. Through generations and generations of breeding the darwnXdiamond babies back to pure diamonds, you will never have a 100% diamond. It will always be DiamondXDarwin. If you are patient enough you could probably get a 99.9% albino diamond from this cross, but never a pure one. If that makes sense?

another miss. I am aware the diamond cross albinos will never be pure. the question is basically: is there a way to tell apart a 99% albino diamond and an actual pure albino diamond and it is looking like something that just cant be proved and I just have to shut up and believe anything anyone wants to spoon feed me. For the record I dont have my doubts about projects like the albino RBB because it is obviously an albino RBB but when it comes to these subspecies of an already existing mutation, that most people probably wouldnt care about crossing because apperently they are basically the same snake genetically, I will forever remain a pessimist.

 

[nintendont]

Work out how many animals you would be feeding and housing with all those unproven possible hets. It would be a very beneficial project for Rodent breeders!
Places like Snake ranch, who already have true Albino diamond would beat you to the post without compromising their integrity, at the same time

ummm...the 50/50 refers to the ratio of diamond to darwin and they would all be 100% hets used in that example so no possible hets as far as I know...but you guys are all the experienced breeders and know more than me!

 

[junglepython2]

I think people missed the point of the question (except for Redfox) I was really just using an albino diamond as an example. I really wanted to know how any albino morelia spilota could be proven pure and not traced back to an albino darwin, but I think my fears have been realised and it is not an easy thing to do and if it true Redfox, that some trust is required, then I have no excitement left for future albino subspecies. People will do anything for money and in this case there is a lot of money to be made, in my opinion: in a fraudulent way that noone can even prove. I only trust myself and family members (most anyway lol) and I think that is a safe way to live life.
Bring on a Piebald jungle python or a Hyper scrubbie and I will have no doubts though...hmmm pied jungle...how good would that be....hmmm

To answer your question it would be impossible to tell if it was pure or not, all you have is the word of the seller and hopefully a well documented lineage, which wouldn't be all that hard to fake. DNA testing would be next to useless. I see where you are coming from and I doubt I would fully trust any albino Morelia other then Darwins unless it was proven to be wild caught. The only way that I can see another albino Morelia subspecies being widely accepted as pure is if the new albino was due to a different allele to the ones in Darwins.

 

[andynic07]

Would it really matter if a diamond was crossed with an albino Darwin to produce a diamond albino? It seems that jags are crossed with everything and accepted and diamonds are crossed with a lot of other sub species and accepted.

 

[nintendont]

To answer your question it would be impossible to tell if it was pure or not, all you have is the word of the seller and hopefully a well documented lineage, which wouldn't be all that hard to fake. DNA testing would be next to useless. I see where you are coming from and I doubt I would fully trust any albino Morelia other then Darwins unless it was proven to be wild caught. The only way that I can see another albino Morelia subspecies being widely accepted as pure is if the new albino was due to a different allele to the ones in Darwins.

Thankyou, this was what I what I was after from the beginning.

 

[cement]

All albino morphs that i know of originate from the wild. They are found, caught, put on the books and welcomed to the hobby.
Any albino morelia, diamond or other, that comes from captivity, except now for Darwins, would be a hoax.
My own ideas about an albino diamond, are that yeah its possible, but, seeing as diamonds would spend more time exposed to the sun then other sub species of morelia, and melanin is natures sunblock, that they would perish young.